From: edwardbelsky@worldnet.att.net   
      
   ROBBIE  wrote in message   
   news:vZGdneeTA4y6igHYnZ2dneKdnZypnZ2d@bt.com...   
   >   
   > "Edward Belsky"  wrote in message   
   > news:BRTmh.324002$Fi1.135518@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...   
   > > From:  ROBBIE - view profile   
   > > Date:  Sun, Jan 7 2001 7:26 am   
   > > So you're saying that black people don't push for the death penalty,   
   >   
   > No.   
   >   
   >   
   > > even though they would 'benefit' from it because their own people would   
   > > suffer by it.   
   >   
   > Eh? You back on the drugs?   
   >   
   Brass, this shows how cheek returns on the speaker. The quote that you think   
   shows the effect of drugs was composed by you in 2001.  Disentangle the   
   threads to verify.  Ok, maybe in America we can get mickey-mouse degree   
   which lead to well-paying jobs, but we have to take some required courses   
   and most of us somewhere along the way are forced to graaple with the   
   logical truism, (which seems to be out of your ken, since you have not   
   burnished your curriculum vitae with any logic courses) that if all a is b,   
   it does not follow that all b is a.   It may be true that "the vast majority   
   of urban crime in London is committed by black men and everyone here knows   
   it" but it does not follow that the vast majority of black men are   
   criminals.  There is the rub.  You don't have any black friends to leaven to   
   opinion of black people in general.  Martha and I don't just encounter black   
   people on the six o'clock news.  We both know a few.  The ones I know are   
   all nice.  They are not programmatic, thieving, pretentiious, or homicidal.   
   Everyone in Co-op city was black. Plain old black and uncriminal. The only   
   black characters in your corpus are the thief-cum-performance artist of   
   "Cosmic Funk."   
      
   Your portraiture of me is a little odd because you've got me as a fervent   
   left-liberal even though the old quote of yours comes from a thread that I   
   started in which I pushed for the Death Penalty -- in New York, I 'd be an   
   abolitionist in England.(Koestler cleverly used that old anti-slavery   
   moniker when he led the campaign against the Death Penalty in England in the   
   late 50's.  You must think that I listen to Leadbelly, Josh White, Pete   
   Seeger except when I'm sticking male porn tapes on my VCR.  Who are you   
   Michael Savage?  We have a lot of right-wing commentators like youon the   
   radio Robbie!  You guys just assume that their left critics are the   
   antitheses of whoever they think they are at the moment.  If you must know,   
   I went through a season of porn during a year when I possessed only one porn   
   magazine andand I am still rather sentimental about its exemplars, shall we   
   say because they were my entire social life at time.  The experience taught   
   me fidelity -- that is, it taught how to continually pull new frissons out   
   of a finite set of haunches - it was a good education for marriage.  But now   
   porn makes me sick.  I prefer to latch on to and chat up handsome strangers   
   that I've met through the net until I've broken through the fourth wall with   
   them (just a joke, I have a good life, has Martha told you?)   
   >   
   Now you say: . My target isn't black people - though   
   > the vast majority of urban crime in London is committed by black men and   
   > everyone here knows it - but the middle-class lib-lefties.   
      
      
   Tell me about it.  So it's a class thing, class war, eh? (as if I didn't   
   know) and once you started getting compliments from me, you let your class   
   hobbyhorses hang out to dry.  Before my compliments, you were alittle shy   
   about them.  Now you free to let go about them.  I somehow gave you a pass   
   to do that.  Don't you understand that England is a very open place?   The   
   toffs in England cannot repress their colors from making a spectacle of   
   themselves. You can pick up on anybody's patent being in the sunshine.  ,The   
   public space is refreshed by everyone. You, Robbie, could easily write with   
   the same social breadth as Anthony Powell, which is really very odd because   
   England famously believes there are baffles and screens between the classes   
   and that there is no transparency -- taint so. . It has go to do with how   
   the energy travels there.  You could be a great writer Bugs.  Your thing   
   about blacks is so cooty-wangy that I figure that it's got to be a community   
   prejudice. Crime is very serious my friend. Police are not pc.  They don't   
   make allowances.  I was thinking about the cultural differences between how   
   you guys "take the brunt" and how Americans do.  For one thing, there is   
   absolutely no housing leg-up in America for being black as there is your   
   council system. None.  There is affirmative action here for getting tenure   
   and getting hired as a professor at shit colleges. You look on American and   
   England differently because you didn't have the same kind of prejudice   
   there.  I suppose when you say that you are thinking of Orwell saying that   
   American black soldiers were popular among the English during Wwii.: I   
   developed jazz interest recently because living in NY I am blessed with the   
   presence of two brilliant jazz radio stations WKCR and WBGO.  My   
   after-the-fact  jazz past must be a model for what it is now like for a 20   
   year old (or a 35 year old for that matter) to retrieve something about the   
   sixties.  He will get the data in skewed order, he might ponder enigmatic   
   shards and album covers but to make a major big deal about this exemplary 35   
   year old not having 'lived through those events' is to ignore something   
   simple but important: (clearing my throat) except for the rare historical   
   event with populist impact like the blitz and the depression, newspapers and   
   radio and tv were how contemporaries learned about the events of the last   
   century and old newsprint and footage can be perfectly resuscitated,   
   decanted and viewed anew. The History Channel possible, it de-privileges   
   nowness, like the lady says. 20 year olds do not learn about old events any   
   differently than their first audience did.  Most of us are insubstantial,   
   vague overlookers relative to the big events, at the very most consumers.   
   The illusion of participation is media hype that creates spurious affinities   
   and spurious tribal divisions that drive the western economies.  I   
   experienced the sixties as a kid.  Because I looked smart, my immediate   
   seniors said that I would someday overshadow the iconoclasts who were then   
   pulling institutions down upwind or on the other side of town.  They weren't   
   going to get an argument from me about that when I was eleven.  Flattery is   
   a potent form of indoctrination and another emollient was that my   
   insurgency-to-be made common bedfellows of me and my complimenters, who   
   tended to be males in their late teens or early twenties, a demographic   
   niche I was just then learning reluctant appreciation of, with much sturm   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)