From: user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid   
      
   On 1/13/26 12:34 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   > On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 11:43:03 -0800, dart200   
   >  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 1/13/26 9:47 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>> On 1/12/2026 5:17 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>> On 1/12/26 7:55 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>> On 1/12/2026 8:38 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 01:31:52 -0800, dart200   
   >>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 1/11/26 3:36 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> *+-how would we fund consumerism tho???   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> All the economists, right and left thik consumer spending is   
   >>>>>>>> unproductive,   
   >>>>>>>> which is why they would prefer a consumtion tax over an income tax.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> consumers buying things is unproductive?? what in the fuck is the   
   >>>>>>> point   
   >>>>>>> of the economy even?? to make things that aren't consumed??   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> consumer spending is supposed to be the fucking bedrock guidance of   
   >>>>>>> the   
   >>>>>>> economic engine, that's the how the market is supposed to work. if   
   >>>>>>> consumers can't spend ... how in the fuck do we know what to   
   >>>>>>> produce, eh???   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> ofc we wouldn't need usury to fund consumer spending if they were paid   
   >>>>>>> more fairly regardless of whether we tax them or not. idk why ur   
   >>>>>>> bringing up tax that ain't the question here   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Discourage consumprion, encourage income.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> THe problem is the right doesn't trust the left with two taxes.   
   >>>>>>>> THey want   
   >>>>>>>> the left to admit defeat and repeal the income tax amendment   
   >>>>>>>> first. But   
   >>>>>>>> tariffs are primarily how the USA was financed before an income tax.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> i want us to stop using the federal govt, to do things that should be   
   >>>>>>> state level orchestration. the feds were supposed to be a *limited*   
   >>>>>>> power govt, not governing everything power govt   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> and fuck tariffs, eh??   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> #god   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> like bro ... u telling me the richest most powerful country on the   
   >>>>>>> planet can't complete on the open market without tariffs??? where's   
   >>>>>>> the   
   >>>>>>> permanent state of many tariffs edition of us "capitalism"???   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> fucking ??   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Usury is an integral part of this system.  No way could consumerism   
   >>>>>> generate wealth for a few if they couldn't use money to make more   
   >>>>>> money.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> consumerism   
   >>>>>> tariffs   
   >>>>>> various tax schemes   
   >>>>>> politics   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Something is wrong with this system.  Perhaps we could think of a new   
   >>>>>> one that has not been tried before.  Because, so far, nothing works   
   >>>>>> long term, which is why we are here fussing about the system that we   
   >>>>>> are left with after the others failed.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Human beings want to matter, to feel important and appreciated, and   
   >>>>> by doing so improve their place in the world. So they do things to   
   >>>>> those ends. Whether or not they actually make things better for   
   >>>>> others is ultimately always secondary to those primary goals.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> speak for urself broski, just cause u allow urself to excuse greed,   
   >>>> doesn't mean i will   
   >>>>   
   >>>> secularists think they've reached escape velocity for morals by   
   >>>> "measuring" the fact we've ignored morals so much thus far ...   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   > unrepentant sinners smh   
   >>>>   >   
   >>>>   > #god   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> This is true of people everywhere. We are built by our evolution to   
   >>>>> improve our social status. Because having a high status conferred an   
   >>>>> increased chance of survival.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> u know why bad things keep happening to "good" people???   
   >>>>   
   >>>> because our values are by and large kinda shit, so therefore we're   
   >>>> unable to organize around producing a better one.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> This is how we've been behaving:   
   >>>>>    > see that things aren't working as well as we think they should   
   >>>>>    > design a solution to make things better (and improve the status   
   >>>>> of those involved in the repair)   
   >>>>>    > solution does not make everything better   
   >>>>>    > some things are even worse   
   >>>>>    > repeat   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> If you say that the best possible system would be to just allow folks   
   >>>>> to make their own decisions based on their own motivations and   
   >>>>> incentives with as little oversight interference as possible, you're   
   >>>>> utopian or a bigot and a hater. (Don't you even CARE?!)   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> But mostly the problem with allowing that much freedom is there'd be   
   >>>>> no place for them to repair the rupture of perfection and be the hero.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> that much freedom can only be had by committing to others just as much   
   >>>> as you commit to yourself.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> no other way it will ever happen   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> "Excuse greed" is just marxist rhetoric. If you don't want to be   
   >>> confused with a moron communist don't talk like one.   
   >>   
   >> it is excusing greed   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> As long as people believe we can remake humanity (by force or by   
   >>> incentive) they and their systems are all going to fail.   
   >>   
   >> we're going to have to "remake" humanity in order to have the general   
   >> consideration required to account for long term consequences of our actions   
   >>   
   >> greedy people just don't have enough foresight, and this is a massive   
   >> liability to the viability of our species   
   >   
   > People in general as a matter of fact.  Erich Fromm (psychologist)   
   > said that the human tendency to believe whatever best suits their   
   > short term self interest is a fatal flaw.   
      
   dude made a claim, sure...   
      
   >   
   > It might be that the next step in evolution will suddenly come along   
   > and save us.  Good luck.   
      
   it's not gunna suddenly come along, it's going to be explicitly worked   
   towards   
      
   >   
   >>>   
   >>> Rewarding competence isn't excusing greed. It's understanding what   
   >>> incentivizes people do things. You can have all the high-minded ideals   
   >>> but in the end people will generally always act in ways that benefit   
   >>> their own interests. The neat thing is more and more are starting to   
   >>> understand that helping other people *is* in their interest and in the   
   >>> long run provides personal benefits both psychic/spiritual and physical/   
   >>> monetary. And that understanding comes from seeing how things REALLY work.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> market economics isn't a great meritocracy, it's just mildly better than   
   >> a totalitarian bureaucracy ... which is a really fucking low bar, dude   
   >>   
   >> it's still pretty shit on the whole and the system has robbed us tons of   
   >> soft hard to measure value in the process, like family and community by   
   >> and large...   
   >>   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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