From: fedora@fea.st   
      
   On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 16:58:27 -0800, dart200   
    wrote:   
      
   >On 1/13/26 12:34 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 11:43:03 -0800, dart200   
   >>  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 1/13/26 9:47 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>> On 1/12/2026 5:17 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>>> On 1/12/26 7:55 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 1/12/2026 8:38 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 01:31:52 -0800, dart200   
   >>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 1/11/26 3:36 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> *+-how would we fund consumerism tho???   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> All the economists, right and left thik consumer spending is   
   >>>>>>>>> unproductive,   
   >>>>>>>>> which is why they would prefer a consumtion tax over an income tax.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> consumers buying things is unproductive?? what in the fuck is the   
   >>>>>>>> point   
   >>>>>>>> of the economy even?? to make things that aren't consumed??   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> consumer spending is supposed to be the fucking bedrock guidance of   
   >>>>>>>> the   
   >>>>>>>> economic engine, that's the how the market is supposed to work. if   
   >>>>>>>> consumers can't spend ... how in the fuck do we know what to   
   >>>>>>>> produce, eh???   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> ofc we wouldn't need usury to fund consumer spending if they were paid   
   >>>>>>>> more fairly regardless of whether we tax them or not. idk why ur   
   >>>>>>>> bringing up tax that ain't the question here   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Discourage consumprion, encourage income.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> THe problem is the right doesn't trust the left with two taxes.   
   >>>>>>>>> THey want   
   >>>>>>>>> the left to admit defeat and repeal the income tax amendment   
   >>>>>>>>> first. But   
   >>>>>>>>> tariffs are primarily how the USA was financed before an income tax.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> i want us to stop using the federal govt, to do things that should be   
   >>>>>>>> state level orchestration. the feds were supposed to be a *limited*   
   >>>>>>>> power govt, not governing everything power govt   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> and fuck tariffs, eh??   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> #god   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> like bro ... u telling me the richest most powerful country on the   
   >>>>>>>> planet can't complete on the open market without tariffs??? where's   
   >>>>>>>> the   
   >>>>>>>> permanent state of many tariffs edition of us "capitalism"???   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> fucking ??   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Usury is an integral part of this system.  No way could consumerism   
   >>>>>>> generate wealth for a few if they couldn't use money to make more   
   >>>>>>> money.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> consumerism   
   >>>>>>> tariffs   
   >>>>>>> various tax schemes   
   >>>>>>> politics   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Something is wrong with this system.  Perhaps we could think of a new   
   >>>>>>> one that has not been tried before.  Because, so far, nothing works   
   >>>>>>> long term, which is why we are here fussing about the system that we   
   >>>>>>> are left with after the others failed.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Human beings want to matter, to feel important and appreciated, and   
   >>>>>> by doing so improve their place in the world. So they do things to   
   >>>>>> those ends. Whether or not they actually make things better for   
   >>>>>> others is ultimately always secondary to those primary goals.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> speak for urself broski, just cause u allow urself to excuse greed,   
   >>>>> doesn't mean i will   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> secularists think they've reached escape velocity for morals by   
   >>>>> "measuring" the fact we've ignored morals so much thus far ...   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   > unrepentant sinners smh   
   >>>>>   >   
   >>>>>   > #god   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> This is true of people everywhere. We are built by our evolution to   
   >>>>>> improve our social status. Because having a high status conferred an   
   >>>>>> increased chance of survival.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> u know why bad things keep happening to "good" people???   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> because our values are by and large kinda shit, so therefore we're   
   >>>>> unable to organize around producing a better one.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> This is how we've been behaving:   
   >>>>>>    > see that things aren't working as well as we think they should   
   >>>>>>    > design a solution to make things better (and improve the status   
   >>>>>> of those involved in the repair)   
   >>>>>>    > solution does not make everything better   
   >>>>>>    > some things are even worse   
   >>>>>>    > repeat   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> If you say that the best possible system would be to just allow folks   
   >>>>>> to make their own decisions based on their own motivations and   
   >>>>>> incentives with as little oversight interference as possible, you're   
   >>>>>> utopian or a bigot and a hater. (Don't you even CARE?!)   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> But mostly the problem with allowing that much freedom is there'd be   
   >>>>>> no place for them to repair the rupture of perfection and be the hero.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> that much freedom can only be had by committing to others just as much   
   >>>>> as you commit to yourself.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> no other way it will ever happen   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> "Excuse greed" is just marxist rhetoric. If you don't want to be   
   >>>> confused with a moron communist don't talk like one.   
   >>>   
   >>> it is excusing greed   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> As long as people believe we can remake humanity (by force or by   
   >>>> incentive) they and their systems are all going to fail.   
   >>>   
   >>> we're going to have to "remake" humanity in order to have the general   
   >>> consideration required to account for long term consequences of our actions   
   >>>   
   >>> greedy people just don't have enough foresight, and this is a massive   
   >>> liability to the viability of our species   
   >>   
   >> People in general as a matter of fact.  Erich Fromm (psychologist)   
   >> said that the human tendency to believe whatever best suits their   
   >> short term self interest is a fatal flaw.   
   >   
   >dude made a claim, sure...   
      
   As a member of a profession that explicitly deals with the miraculous   
   phenom of how it is that people can lie to themselves, he has a strong   
   claim to such an opinion.  In fact, if it were not for that faculty,   
   psychs generally would be metaphorically starving and living in caves.   
      
   >>   
   >> It might be that the next step in evolution will suddenly come along   
   >> and save us.  Good luck.   
   >   
   >it's not gunna suddenly come along, it's going to be explicitly worked   
   >towards   
      
   You do have a grasp of the timeframe involved with the evolution of   
   anything at all, right?   
      
   >>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Rewarding competence isn't excusing greed. It's understanding what   
   >>>> incentivizes people do things. You can have all the high-minded ideals   
   >>>> but in the end people will generally always act in ways that benefit   
   >>>> their own interests. The neat thing is more and more are starting to   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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