From: punditster@gmail.com   
      
   On 1/13/2026 8:09 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   > On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 19:17:32 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 1/13/2026 4:08 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 14:07:14 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 1/13/2026 10:10 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 10:04:31 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 1/13/2026 9:26 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 7:03 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 15:42:55 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 1:24 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 12:50:31 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 11:37 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 10:55:14 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 8:38 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 01:31:52 -0800, dart200   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/11/26 3:36 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *+-how would we fund consumerism tho???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All the economists, right and left thik consumer spending is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is why they would prefer a consumtion tax over an income   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tax.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumers buying things is unproductive?? what in the fuck is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the point   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the economy even?? to make things that aren't consumed??   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumer spending is supposed to be the fucking bedrock   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guidance of the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economic engine, that's the how the market is supposed to   
   work. if   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumers can't spend ... how in the fuck do we know what to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produce, eh???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ofc we wouldn't need usury to fund consumer spending if they   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were paid   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more fairly regardless of whether we tax them or not. idk why   
   ur   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bringing up tax that ain't the question here   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discourage consumprion, encourage income.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THe problem is the right doesn't trust the left with two   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes.  THey want   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the left to admit defeat and repeal the income tax amendment   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first.  But   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tariffs are primarily how the USA was financed before an   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> income tax.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i want us to stop using the federal govt, to do things that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state level orchestration. the feds were supposed to be a   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *limited*   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power govt, not governing everything power govt   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fuck tariffs, eh??   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #god   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like bro ... u telling me the richest most powerful country on   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet can't complete on the open market without tariffs???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where's the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permanent state of many tariffs edition of us "capitalism"???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fucking ??   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Usury is an integral part of this system.  No way could   
   consumerism   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> generate wealth for a few if they couldn't use money to make   
   more   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> money.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumerism   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tariffs   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> various tax schemes   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> politics   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Something is wrong with this system.  Perhaps we could think of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one that has not been tried before.  Because, so far, nothing   
   works   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> long term, which is why we are here fussing about the system   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are left with after the others failed.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Human beings want to matter, to feel important and appreciated,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> and by   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> doing so improve their place in the world. So they do things to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> those   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> ends. Whether or not they actually make things better for others   
   is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately always secondary to those primary goals.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is true of people everywhere. We are built by our evolution   
   to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> improve our social status. Because having a high status   
   conferred an   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> increased chance of survival.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is how we've been behaving:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>        > see that things aren't working as well as we think   
   they should   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>        > design a solution to make things better (and improve   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> status of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> those involved in the repair)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>        > solution does not make everything better   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>        > some things are even worse   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>        > repeat   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> So it is time for a new idea, not revert to an old idea like   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> libertarianism.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Because giving people that much freedom doesn't work for you, as I   
   >>>>>>>>>>> explained:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Because reverting to failed past ideas seems kinda stupid.  As you   
   >>>>>>>>>> mentioned once upon a time, those ideas were left behind for a   
   reason   
   >>>>>>>>>> with intention to do things in a better way.  It occurs to me that   
   >>>>>>>>>> perhaps you don't like the better way that was chosen.  You really   
   >>>>>>>>>> have no interest in possible new ways of handling those old   
   problems.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Leaving behind the ideals of liberty is the end of civilization.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> However, your definition of liberty does not rule us.  Let us return   
   >>>>>>>> to:  libertarianism was abandoned for a reason.  An improvement was   
   >>>>>>>> intended.  Discarding that improvement does not require returning to   
   >>>>>>>> old unworkable ideas.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> What I hear:  "Blah, blah, blah I don't like freedom and want the   
   boot."   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Is there something wrong with Sombrero? It's as if he opposed to almost   
   >>>>>> every statement that is posted here!   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Yours anyway.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>> It's not my liberty. Liberty belongs to everyone. We should all be equal   
   >>>> under the law.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> The US government was founded on libertarian principles!   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Which were mostly abandoned about 125 years ago for good reason, which   
      
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