From: fedora@fea.st   
      
   On Wed, 14 Jan 2026 07:21:44 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
      
   >On 1/13/2026 8:09 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 19:17:32 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 1/13/2026 4:08 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 14:07:14 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 1/13/2026 10:10 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 10:04:31 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 1/13/2026 9:26 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 7:03 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 15:42:55 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 1:24 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 12:50:31 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 11:37 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 10:55:14 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 8:38 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 01:31:52 -0800, dart200   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/11/26 3:36 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com   
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *+-how would we fund consumerism tho???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All the economists, right and left thik consumer spending is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is why they would prefer a consumtion tax over an   
   income   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tax.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumers buying things is unproductive?? what in the fuck is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the point   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the economy even?? to make things that aren't consumed??   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumer spending is supposed to be the fucking bedrock   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guidance of the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economic engine, that's the how the market is supposed to   
   work. if   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumers can't spend ... how in the fuck do we know what to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produce, eh???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ofc we wouldn't need usury to fund consumer spending if they   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were paid   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more fairly regardless of whether we tax them or not. idk why   
   ur   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bringing up tax that ain't the question here   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discourage consumprion, encourage income.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THe problem is the right doesn't trust the left with two   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes.  THey want   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the left to admit defeat and repeal the income tax amendment   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first.  But   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tariffs are primarily how the USA was financed before an   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> income tax.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i want us to stop using the federal govt, to do things that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state level orchestration. the feds were supposed to be a   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *limited*   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power govt, not governing everything power govt   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fuck tariffs, eh??   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #god   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like bro ... u telling me the richest most powerful country   
   on the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet can't complete on the open market without tariffs???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where's the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permanent state of many tariffs edition of us "capitalism"???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fucking ??   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Usury is an integral part of this system.  No way could   
   consumerism   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generate wealth for a few if they couldn't use money to make   
   more   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumerism   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tariffs   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> various tax schemes   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> politics   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Something is wrong with this system.  Perhaps we could think of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one that has not been tried before.  Because, so far, nothing   
   works   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long term, which is why we are here fussing about the system   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are left with after the others failed.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Human beings want to matter, to feel important and appreciated,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and by   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing so improve their place in the world. So they do things to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> those   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends. Whether or not they actually make things better for   
   others is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately always secondary to those primary goals.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is true of people everywhere. We are built by our   
   evolution to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> improve our social status. Because having a high status   
   conferred an   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> increased chance of survival.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is how we've been behaving:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>        > see that things aren't working as well as we think   
   they should   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>        > design a solution to make things better (and improve   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> status of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> those involved in the repair)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>        > solution does not make everything better   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>        > some things are even worse   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>        > repeat   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> So it is time for a new idea, not revert to an old idea like   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> libertarianism.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Because giving people that much freedom doesn't work for you, as I   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> explained:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Because reverting to failed past ideas seems kinda stupid.  As you   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mentioned once upon a time, those ideas were left behind for a   
   reason   
   >>>>>>>>>>> with intention to do things in a better way.  It occurs to me that   
   >>>>>>>>>>> perhaps you don't like the better way that was chosen.  You really   
   >>>>>>>>>>> have no interest in possible new ways of handling those old   
   problems.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Leaving behind the ideals of liberty is the end of civilization.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> However, your definition of liberty does not rule us.  Let us return   
   >>>>>>>>> to:  libertarianism was abandoned for a reason.  An improvement was   
   >>>>>>>>> intended.  Discarding that improvement does not require returning to   
   >>>>>>>>> old unworkable ideas.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> What I hear:  "Blah, blah, blah I don't like freedom and want the   
   boot."   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Is there something wrong with Sombrero? It's as if he opposed to almost   
   >>>>>>> every statement that is posted here!   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Yours anyway.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> It's not my liberty. Liberty belongs to everyone. We should all be equal   
   >>>>> under the law.   
   >>>>>>   
      
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