From: fedora@fea.st   
      
   On Wed, 14 Jan 2026 08:56:46 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
      
   >On 1/14/2026 8:17 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2026 07:21:44 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 1/13/2026 8:09 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 19:17:32 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 1/13/2026 4:08 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 14:07:14 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 1/13/2026 10:10 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 10:04:31 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> On 1/13/2026 9:26 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 7:03 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 15:42:55 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 1:24 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 12:50:31 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 11:37 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 10:55:14 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 8:38 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 01:31:52 -0800, dart200   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/11/26 3:36 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com   
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *+-how would we fund consumerism tho???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All the economists, right and left thik consumer spending   
   is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unproductive,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is why they would prefer a consumtion tax over an   
   income   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tax.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumers buying things is unproductive?? what in the fuck   
   is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the point   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the economy even?? to make things that aren't consumed??   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumer spending is supposed to be the fucking bedrock   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guidance of the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economic engine, that's the how the market is supposed to   
   work. if   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumers can't spend ... how in the fuck do we know what to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produce, eh???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ofc we wouldn't need usury to fund consumer spending if they   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were paid   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more fairly regardless of whether we tax them or not. idk   
   why ur   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bringing up tax that ain't the question here   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discourage consumprion, encourage income.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THe problem is the right doesn't trust the left with two   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes.  THey want   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the left to admit defeat and repeal the income tax   
   amendment   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first.  But   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tariffs are primarily how the USA was financed before an   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> income tax.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i want us to stop using the federal govt, to do things that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state level orchestration. the feds were supposed to be a   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *limited*   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power govt, not governing everything power govt   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fuck tariffs, eh??   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #god   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like bro ... u telling me the richest most powerful country   
   on the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet can't complete on the open market without tariffs???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where's the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permanent state of many tariffs edition of us   
   "capitalism"???   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fucking ??   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Usury is an integral part of this system.  No way could   
   consumerism   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generate wealth for a few if they couldn't use money to make   
   more   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consumerism   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tariffs   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> various tax schemes   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> politics   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Something is wrong with this system.  Perhaps we could think   
   of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one that has not been tried before.  Because, so far,   
   nothing works   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long term, which is why we are here fussing about the system   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are left with after the others failed.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Human beings want to matter, to feel important and   
   appreciated,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and by   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing so improve their place in the world. So they do things   
   to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends. Whether or not they actually make things better for   
   others is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately always secondary to those primary goals.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is true of people everywhere. We are built by our   
   evolution to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improve our social status. Because having a high status   
   conferred an   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increased chance of survival.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is how we've been behaving:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         > see that things aren't working as well as we think   
   they should   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         > design a solution to make things better (and   
   improve the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> status of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those involved in the repair)   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         > solution does not make everything better   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         > some things are even worse   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         > repeat   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it is time for a new idea, not revert to an old idea like   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> libertarianism.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because giving people that much freedom doesn't work for you,   
   as I   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> explained:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because reverting to failed past ideas seems kinda stupid.  As   
   you   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned once upon a time, those ideas were left behind for a   
   reason   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> with intention to do things in a better way.  It occurs to me   
   that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps you don't like the better way that was chosen.  You   
   really   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> have no interest in possible new ways of handling those old   
   problems.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Leaving behind the ideals of liberty is the end of civilization.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> However, your definition of liberty does not rule us.  Let us   
   return   
   >>>>>>>>>>> to:  libertarianism was abandoned for a reason.  An improvement was   
   >>>>>>>>>>> intended.  Discarding that improvement does not require returning   
   to   
   >>>>>>>>>>> old unworkable ideas.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
      
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