XPost: alt.messianic   
   From: user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid   
      
   On 1/15/26 8:53 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   > On 1/14/2026 8:35 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >> On 1/14/26 9:38 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>> On 1/13/2026 2:43 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>> On 1/13/26 9:47 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>> On 1/12/2026 5:17 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 1/12/26 7:55 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Human beings want to matter, to feel important and appreciated,   
   >>>>>>> and by doing so improve their place in the world. So they do   
   >>>>>>> things to those ends. Whether or not they actually make things   
   >>>>>>> better for others is ultimately always secondary to those primary   
   >>>>>>> goals.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> speak for urself broski, just cause u allow urself to excuse   
   >>>>>> greed, doesn't mean i will   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> secularists think they've reached escape velocity for morals by   
   >>>>>> "measuring" the fact we've ignored morals so much thus far ...   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>  > unrepentant sinners smh   
   >>>>>>  >   
   >>>>>>  > #god   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> This is true of people everywhere. We are built by our evolution   
   >>>>>>> to improve our social status. Because having a high status   
   >>>>>>> conferred an increased chance of survival.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> u know why bad things keep happening to "good" people???   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> because our values are by and large kinda shit, so therefore we're   
   >>>>>> unable to organize around producing a better one.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> This is how we've been behaving:   
   >>>>>>>   > see that things aren't working as well as we think they should   
   >>>>>>>   > design a solution to make things better (and improve the   
   >>>>>>> status of those involved in the repair)   
   >>>>>>>   > solution does not make everything better   
   >>>>>>>   > some things are even worse   
   >>>>>>>   > repeat   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> If you say that the best possible system would be to just allow   
   >>>>>>> folks to make their own decisions based on their own motivations   
   >>>>>>> and incentives with as little oversight interference as possible,   
   >>>>>>> you're utopian or a bigot and a hater. (Don't you even CARE?!)   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> But mostly the problem with allowing that much freedom is there'd   
   >>>>>>> be no place for them to repair the rupture of perfection and be   
   >>>>>>> the hero.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> that much freedom can only be had by committing to others just as   
   >>>>>> much as you commit to yourself.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> no other way it will ever happen   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> "Excuse greed" is just marxist rhetoric. If you don't want to be   
   >>>>> confused with a moron communist don't talk like one.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> it is excusing greed   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> As long as people believe we can remake humanity (by force or by   
   >>>>> incentive) they and their systems are all going to fail.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> we're going to have to "remake" humanity in order to have the   
   >>>> general consideration required to account for long term consequences   
   >>>> of our actions   
   >>>>   
   >>>> greedy people just don't have enough foresight, and this is a   
   >>>> massive liability to the viability of our species   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Rewarding competence isn't excusing greed. It's understanding what   
   >>>>> incentivizes people do things. You can have all the high-minded   
   >>>>> ideals but in the end people will generally always act in ways that   
   >>>>> benefit their own interests. The neat thing is more and more are   
   >>>>> starting to understand that helping other people *is* in their   
   >>>>> interest and in the long run provides personal benefits both   
   >>>>> psychic/ spiritual and physical/ monetary. And that understanding   
   >>>>> comes from seeing how things REALLY work.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> market economics isn't a great meritocracy, it's just mildly better   
   >>>> than a totalitarian bureaucracy ... which is a really fucking low   
   >>>> bar, dude   
   >>>>   
   >>>> it's still pretty shit on the whole and the system has robbed us   
   >>>> tons of soft hard to measure value in the process, like family and   
   >>>> community by and large...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> in the end it doesn't really matter what people like u think, the   
   >>>> top 1% of the world sitting on top of a grossly exploitive system u   
   >>>> refuse to acknowledge... what matters is the bottom 90% think. which   
   >>>> btw caps at like $20/day of spending power. i don't think ur close   
   >>>> to *even one person* living in the bracket that 90% of people on   
   >>>> this globe are existing within.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> it's funny to me when secularists like u don't worry about ur next   
   >>>> self. cause that "life path" birthing dice roll really ain't looking   
   >>>> all that hot these day   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> I'm not a secularist.   
   >>   
   >> u argue values like one   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> Most of your ideas about values, the family, and respecting the human   
   >>> condition when people are oppressed are good.   
   >>>   
   >>> Kindness is good. And worshiping wealth is deadly.   
   >>>   
   >>> But hating others just because they are wealthy is just as deadly.   
   >>> History has repeatedly shown that is a direct path to an oppressive   
   >>> authoritarian dystopia. As is trying to remake humanity with coercion.   
   >>   
   >> there's more than one kind of dystopia and ur quickly building another   
   >> with global capital accumulation.   
   >>   
   >> tbh, u already have for a large section of the planet, they just have   
   >> so little actual freedom or space to think beyond survival mode...   
   >> that changing anything about that isn't even remotely on their radar   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> It's already possible to hold a worldview that takes into account the   
   >>> long term consequences of our actions. That path has been shown to   
   >>> work, repeatedly. Buddha, Christ, Krishna, they all did it. They all   
   >>> showed how it's done.   
   >>   
   >> and *all* of them despised material wealth how retarded are you???   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> You might notice, none of them said it's okay to do that by using force.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> they also didn't say it was ok to control wealth using violence, which   
   >> is what global capitalism invariably does.   
   >>   
   >> all the talk of voluntarism being a core fundamental is literally just   
   >> baseless platitudes, cause ain't nobody asked me if i was ok with this   
   >>   
   >   
   > I'm not focused on massive capital accumulation because it's been   
   > getting so much attention that very soon it's likely to run up against   
   > the rocks of reality -- there's a limit to how much you can own and   
   > effectively maintain.   
      
   with modern info tech and robotics??? i'm not so sure about that one   
   wilson...   
      
   >   
   > And these things historically run in cycles, so no matter what happens I   
   > expect that we've already reached the maximal point and it's soon going   
   > to turn the other way.   
      
   only if we explicitly work to make it the other way ...   
      
   >   
   > The other thing about extreme poverty is, it's been shrinking even   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)