XPost: alt.messianic   
   From: Wilson@nowhere.invalid   
      
   On 1/14/2026 8:35 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   > On 1/14/26 9:38 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >> On 1/13/2026 2:43 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>> On 1/13/26 9:47 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>> On 1/12/2026 5:17 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>>> On 1/12/26 7:55 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Human beings want to matter, to feel important and appreciated,   
   >>>>>> and by doing so improve their place in the world. So they do   
   >>>>>> things to those ends. Whether or not they actually make things   
   >>>>>> better for others is ultimately always secondary to those primary   
   >>>>>> goals.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> speak for urself broski, just cause u allow urself to excuse greed,   
   >>>>> doesn't mean i will   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> secularists think they've reached escape velocity for morals by   
   >>>>> "measuring" the fact we've ignored morals so much thus far ...   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>  > unrepentant sinners smh   
   >>>>>  >   
   >>>>>  > #god   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> This is true of people everywhere. We are built by our evolution   
   >>>>>> to improve our social status. Because having a high status   
   >>>>>> conferred an increased chance of survival.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> u know why bad things keep happening to "good" people???   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> because our values are by and large kinda shit, so therefore we're   
   >>>>> unable to organize around producing a better one.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> This is how we've been behaving:   
   >>>>>>   > see that things aren't working as well as we think they should   
   >>>>>>   > design a solution to make things better (and improve the   
   >>>>>> status of those involved in the repair)   
   >>>>>>   > solution does not make everything better   
   >>>>>>   > some things are even worse   
   >>>>>>   > repeat   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> If you say that the best possible system would be to just allow   
   >>>>>> folks to make their own decisions based on their own motivations   
   >>>>>> and incentives with as little oversight interference as possible,   
   >>>>>> you're utopian or a bigot and a hater. (Don't you even CARE?!)   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> But mostly the problem with allowing that much freedom is there'd   
   >>>>>> be no place for them to repair the rupture of perfection and be   
   >>>>>> the hero.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> that much freedom can only be had by committing to others just as   
   >>>>> much as you commit to yourself.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> no other way it will ever happen   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> "Excuse greed" is just marxist rhetoric. If you don't want to be   
   >>>> confused with a moron communist don't talk like one.   
   >>>   
   >>> it is excusing greed   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> As long as people believe we can remake humanity (by force or by   
   >>>> incentive) they and their systems are all going to fail.   
   >>>   
   >>> we're going to have to "remake" humanity in order to have the general   
   >>> consideration required to account for long term consequences of our   
   >>> actions   
   >>>   
   >>> greedy people just don't have enough foresight, and this is a massive   
   >>> liability to the viability of our species   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Rewarding competence isn't excusing greed. It's understanding what   
   >>>> incentivizes people do things. You can have all the high-minded   
   >>>> ideals but in the end people will generally always act in ways that   
   >>>> benefit their own interests. The neat thing is more and more are   
   >>>> starting to understand that helping other people *is* in their   
   >>>> interest and in the long run provides personal benefits both   
   >>>> psychic/ spiritual and physical/ monetary. And that understanding   
   >>>> comes from seeing how things REALLY work.   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> market economics isn't a great meritocracy, it's just mildly better   
   >>> than a totalitarian bureaucracy ... which is a really fucking low   
   >>> bar, dude   
   >>>   
   >>> it's still pretty shit on the whole and the system has robbed us tons   
   >>> of soft hard to measure value in the process, like family and   
   >>> community by and large...   
   >>>   
   >>> in the end it doesn't really matter what people like u think, the top   
   >>> 1% of the world sitting on top of a grossly exploitive system u   
   >>> refuse to acknowledge... what matters is the bottom 90% think. which   
   >>> btw caps at like $20/day of spending power. i don't think ur close to   
   >>> *even one person* living in the bracket that 90% of people on this   
   >>> globe are existing within.   
   >>>   
   >>> it's funny to me when secularists like u don't worry about ur next   
   >>> self. cause that "life path" birthing dice roll really ain't looking   
   >>> all that hot these day   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> I'm not a secularist.   
   >   
   > u argue values like one   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Most of your ideas about values, the family, and respecting the human   
   >> condition when people are oppressed are good.   
   >>   
   >> Kindness is good. And worshiping wealth is deadly.   
   >>   
   >> But hating others just because they are wealthy is just as deadly.   
   >> History has repeatedly shown that is a direct path to an oppressive   
   >> authoritarian dystopia. As is trying to remake humanity with coercion.   
   >   
   > there's more than one kind of dystopia and ur quickly building another   
   > with global capital accumulation.   
   >   
   > tbh, u already have for a large section of the planet, they just have so   
   > little actual freedom or space to think beyond survival mode... that   
   > changing anything about that isn't even remotely on their radar   
   >   
   >>   
   >> It's already possible to hold a worldview that takes into account the   
   >> long term consequences of our actions. That path has been shown to   
   >> work, repeatedly. Buddha, Christ, Krishna, they all did it. They all   
   >> showed how it's done.   
   >   
   > and *all* of them despised material wealth how retarded are you???   
   >   
   >>   
   >> You might notice, none of them said it's okay to do that by using force.   
   >>   
   >   
   > they also didn't say it was ok to control wealth using violence, which   
   > is what global capitalism invariably does.   
   >   
   > all the talk of voluntarism being a core fundamental is literally just   
   > baseless platitudes, cause ain't nobody asked me if i was ok with this   
   >   
      
   I'm not focused on massive capital accumulation because it's been   
   getting so much attention that very soon it's likely to run up against   
   the rocks of reality -- there's a limit to how much you can own and   
   effectively maintain.   
      
   And these things historically run in cycles, so no matter what happens I   
   expect that we've already reached the maximal point and it's soon going   
   to turn the other way.   
      
   The other thing about extreme poverty is, it's been shrinking even   
   during these years of massive wealth concentration. Maybe even because   
   of it.   
      
   The one demonstrable thing about collectivist societies is that they   
   have always made everyone poorer, except for those at the governing   
   center. And free markets have historically always made everyone richer   
   overall, even those at the very bottom.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)