XPost: alt.messianic   
   From: punditster@gmail.com   
      
   On 1/15/2026 12:34 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   > On 1/15/26 8:53 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >> On 1/14/2026 8:35 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>> On 1/14/26 9:38 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>> On 1/13/2026 2:43 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>>> On 1/13/26 9:47 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 1/12/2026 5:17 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 1/12/26 7:55 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Human beings want to matter, to feel important and appreciated,   
   >>>>>>>> and by doing so improve their place in the world. So they do   
   >>>>>>>> things to those ends. Whether or not they actually make things   
   >>>>>>>> better for others is ultimately always secondary to those   
   >>>>>>>> primary goals.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> speak for urself broski, just cause u allow urself to excuse   
   >>>>>>> greed, doesn't mean i will   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> secularists think they've reached escape velocity for morals by   
   >>>>>>> "measuring" the fact we've ignored morals so much thus far ...   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>  > unrepentant sinners smh   
   >>>>>>>  >   
   >>>>>>>  > #god   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> This is true of people everywhere. We are built by our evolution   
   >>>>>>>> to improve our social status. Because having a high status   
   >>>>>>>> conferred an increased chance of survival.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> u know why bad things keep happening to "good" people???   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> because our values are by and large kinda shit, so therefore   
   >>>>>>> we're unable to organize around producing a better one.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> This is how we've been behaving:   
   >>>>>>>>   > see that things aren't working as well as we think they should   
   >>>>>>>>   > design a solution to make things better (and improve the   
   >>>>>>>> status of those involved in the repair)   
   >>>>>>>>   > solution does not make everything better   
   >>>>>>>>   > some things are even worse   
   >>>>>>>>   > repeat   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> If you say that the best possible system would be to just allow   
   >>>>>>>> folks to make their own decisions based on their own motivations   
   >>>>>>>> and incentives with as little oversight interference as   
   >>>>>>>> possible, you're utopian or a bigot and a hater. (Don't you even   
   >>>>>>>> CARE?!)   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> But mostly the problem with allowing that much freedom is   
   >>>>>>>> there'd be no place for them to repair the rupture of perfection   
   >>>>>>>> and be the hero.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> that much freedom can only be had by committing to others just as   
   >>>>>>> much as you commit to yourself.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> no other way it will ever happen   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> "Excuse greed" is just marxist rhetoric. If you don't want to be   
   >>>>>> confused with a moron communist don't talk like one.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> it is excusing greed   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> As long as people believe we can remake humanity (by force or by   
   >>>>>> incentive) they and their systems are all going to fail.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> we're going to have to "remake" humanity in order to have the   
   >>>>> general consideration required to account for long term   
   >>>>> consequences of our actions   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> greedy people just don't have enough foresight, and this is a   
   >>>>> massive liability to the viability of our species   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Rewarding competence isn't excusing greed. It's understanding what   
   >>>>>> incentivizes people do things. You can have all the high-minded   
   >>>>>> ideals but in the end people will generally always act in ways   
   >>>>>> that benefit their own interests. The neat thing is more and more   
   >>>>>> are starting to understand that helping other people *is* in their   
   >>>>>> interest and in the long run provides personal benefits both   
   >>>>>> psychic/ spiritual and physical/ monetary. And that understanding   
   >>>>>> comes from seeing how things REALLY work.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> market economics isn't a great meritocracy, it's just mildly better   
   >>>>> than a totalitarian bureaucracy ... which is a really fucking low   
   >>>>> bar, dude   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> it's still pretty shit on the whole and the system has robbed us   
   >>>>> tons of soft hard to measure value in the process, like family and   
   >>>>> community by and large...   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> in the end it doesn't really matter what people like u think, the   
   >>>>> top 1% of the world sitting on top of a grossly exploitive system u   
   >>>>> refuse to acknowledge... what matters is the bottom 90% think.   
   >>>>> which btw caps at like $20/day of spending power. i don't think ur   
   >>>>> close to *even one person* living in the bracket that 90% of people   
   >>>>> on this globe are existing within.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> it's funny to me when secularists like u don't worry about ur next   
   >>>>> self. cause that "life path" birthing dice roll really ain't   
   >>>>> looking all that hot these day   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I'm not a secularist.   
   >>>   
   >>> u argue values like one   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Most of your ideas about values, the family, and respecting the   
   >>>> human condition when people are oppressed are good.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Kindness is good. And worshiping wealth is deadly.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> But hating others just because they are wealthy is just as deadly.   
   >>>> History has repeatedly shown that is a direct path to an oppressive   
   >>>> authoritarian dystopia. As is trying to remake humanity with coercion.   
   >>>   
   >>> there's more than one kind of dystopia and ur quickly building   
   >>> another with global capital accumulation.   
   >>>   
   >>> tbh, u already have for a large section of the planet, they just have   
   >>> so little actual freedom or space to think beyond survival mode...   
   >>> that changing anything about that isn't even remotely on their radar   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It's already possible to hold a worldview that takes into account   
   >>>> the long term consequences of our actions. That path has been shown   
   >>>> to work, repeatedly. Buddha, Christ, Krishna, they all did it. They   
   >>>> all showed how it's done.   
   >>>   
   >>> and *all* of them despised material wealth how retarded are you???   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You might notice, none of them said it's okay to do that by using   
   >>>> force.   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> they also didn't say it was ok to control wealth using violence,   
   >>> which is what global capitalism invariably does.   
   >>>   
   >>> all the talk of voluntarism being a core fundamental is literally   
   >>> just baseless platitudes, cause ain't nobody asked me if i was ok   
   >>> with this   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> I'm not focused on massive capital accumulation because it's been   
   >> getting so much attention that very soon it's likely to run up against   
   >> the rocks of reality -- there's a limit to how much you can own and   
   >> effectively maintain.   
   >   
   > with modern info tech and robotics??? i'm not so sure about that one   
   > wilson...   
   >   
   >>   
   >> And these things historically run in cycles, so no matter what happens   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)