XPost: alt.messianic   
   From: user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid   
      
   On 1/16/26 5:59 PM, Dude wrote:   
   > On 1/15/2026 12:34 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >> On 1/15/26 8:53 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>> On 1/14/2026 8:35 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>> On 1/14/26 9:38 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>> On 1/13/2026 2:43 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 1/13/26 9:47 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 1/12/2026 5:17 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 1/12/26 7:55 AM, Wilson wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Human beings want to matter, to feel important and appreciated,   
   >>>>>>>>> and by doing so improve their place in the world. So they do   
   >>>>>>>>> things to those ends. Whether or not they actually make things   
   >>>>>>>>> better for others is ultimately always secondary to those   
   >>>>>>>>> primary goals.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> speak for urself broski, just cause u allow urself to excuse   
   >>>>>>>> greed, doesn't mean i will   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> secularists think they've reached escape velocity for morals by   
   >>>>>>>> "measuring" the fact we've ignored morals so much thus far ...   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>  > unrepentant sinners smh   
   >>>>>>>>  >   
   >>>>>>>>  > #god   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> This is true of people everywhere. We are built by our   
   >>>>>>>>> evolution to improve our social status. Because having a high   
   >>>>>>>>> status conferred an increased chance of survival.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> u know why bad things keep happening to "good" people???   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> because our values are by and large kinda shit, so therefore   
   >>>>>>>> we're unable to organize around producing a better one.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> This is how we've been behaving:   
   >>>>>>>>>   > see that things aren't working as well as we think they should   
   >>>>>>>>>   > design a solution to make things better (and improve the   
   >>>>>>>>> status of those involved in the repair)   
   >>>>>>>>>   > solution does not make everything better   
   >>>>>>>>>   > some things are even worse   
   >>>>>>>>>   > repeat   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> If you say that the best possible system would be to just allow   
   >>>>>>>>> folks to make their own decisions based on their own   
   >>>>>>>>> motivations and incentives with as little oversight   
   >>>>>>>>> interference as possible, you're utopian or a bigot and a   
   >>>>>>>>> hater. (Don't you even CARE?!)   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> But mostly the problem with allowing that much freedom is   
   >>>>>>>>> there'd be no place for them to repair the rupture of   
   >>>>>>>>> perfection and be the hero.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> that much freedom can only be had by committing to others just   
   >>>>>>>> as much as you commit to yourself.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> no other way it will ever happen   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> "Excuse greed" is just marxist rhetoric. If you don't want to be   
   >>>>>>> confused with a moron communist don't talk like one.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> it is excusing greed   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> As long as people believe we can remake humanity (by force or by   
   >>>>>>> incentive) they and their systems are all going to fail.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> we're going to have to "remake" humanity in order to have the   
   >>>>>> general consideration required to account for long term   
   >>>>>> consequences of our actions   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> greedy people just don't have enough foresight, and this is a   
   >>>>>> massive liability to the viability of our species   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Rewarding competence isn't excusing greed. It's understanding   
   >>>>>>> what incentivizes people do things. You can have all the high-   
   >>>>>>> minded ideals but in the end people will generally always act in   
   >>>>>>> ways that benefit their own interests. The neat thing is more and   
   >>>>>>> more are starting to understand that helping other people *is* in   
   >>>>>>> their interest and in the long run provides personal benefits   
   >>>>>>> both psychic/ spiritual and physical/ monetary. And that   
   >>>>>>> understanding comes from seeing how things REALLY work.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> market economics isn't a great meritocracy, it's just mildly   
   >>>>>> better than a totalitarian bureaucracy ... which is a really   
   >>>>>> fucking low bar, dude   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> it's still pretty shit on the whole and the system has robbed us   
   >>>>>> tons of soft hard to measure value in the process, like family and   
   >>>>>> community by and large...   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> in the end it doesn't really matter what people like u think, the   
   >>>>>> top 1% of the world sitting on top of a grossly exploitive system   
   >>>>>> u refuse to acknowledge... what matters is the bottom 90% think.   
   >>>>>> which btw caps at like $20/day of spending power. i don't think ur   
   >>>>>> close to *even one person* living in the bracket that 90% of   
   >>>>>> people on this globe are existing within.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> it's funny to me when secularists like u don't worry about ur next   
   >>>>>> self. cause that "life path" birthing dice roll really ain't   
   >>>>>> looking all that hot these day   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I'm not a secularist.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> u argue values like one   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Most of your ideas about values, the family, and respecting the   
   >>>>> human condition when people are oppressed are good.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Kindness is good. And worshiping wealth is deadly.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> But hating others just because they are wealthy is just as deadly.   
   >>>>> History has repeatedly shown that is a direct path to an oppressive   
   >>>>> authoritarian dystopia. As is trying to remake humanity with coercion.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> there's more than one kind of dystopia and ur quickly building   
   >>>> another with global capital accumulation.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> tbh, u already have for a large section of the planet, they just   
   >>>> have so little actual freedom or space to think beyond survival   
   >>>> mode... that changing anything about that isn't even remotely on   
   >>>> their radar   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> It's already possible to hold a worldview that takes into account   
   >>>>> the long term consequences of our actions. That path has been shown   
   >>>>> to work, repeatedly. Buddha, Christ, Krishna, they all did it. They   
   >>>>> all showed how it's done.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> and *all* of them despised material wealth how retarded are you???   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> You might notice, none of them said it's okay to do that by using   
   >>>>> force.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> they also didn't say it was ok to control wealth using violence,   
   >>>> which is what global capitalism invariably does.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> all the talk of voluntarism being a core fundamental is literally   
   >>>> just baseless platitudes, cause ain't nobody asked me if i was ok   
   >>>> with this   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> I'm not focused on massive capital accumulation because it's been   
   >>> getting so much attention that very soon it's likely to run up   
   >>> against the rocks of reality -- there's a limit to how much you can   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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