From: punditster@gmail.com   
      
   On 2/11/2026 1:39 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   > On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 13:15:49 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 2/11/2026 12:39 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 15:26:37 -0500, Wilson    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 2/11/2026 12:13 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:43:07 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 2/10/2026 11:30 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 22:59:09 -0500, Noah Sombrero    
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 16:12:36 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On 2/10/2026 2:12 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 12:49:10 -0800, Dude    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Nihilism is the rejection of all religious and moral principles,   
   in the   
   >>>>>>>>>>> belief that life is meaningless. YMMV.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> That's the thing.  Moral principles need not be meaningful.  It is   
   >>>>>>>>>> enough to have them and understand their worth to a meaningless   
   human   
   >>>>>>>>>> being.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> We studied this at the community college: Political Science (a   
   required   
   >>>>>>>>> course).   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Natural law proponents, from Aristotle to John Locke, have argued   
   that   
   >>>>>>>>> laws enacted by governments are only valid if they conform to a   
   higher,   
   >>>>>>>>> natural, and moral law. It's the basis for inalienable rights such as   
   >>>>>>>>> life, liberty, and property.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> You snuck that last one in yourself, didn't you?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> I think that statement is far too idealistic.  Social structures need   
   >>>>>>>> laws that detail what happens if I kill your dog or you kill my cat,   
   >>>>>>>> metaphorically.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Happenings that are too trivial to require a natural law, but for   
   >>>>>>>> which there must be consequences.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Because social structures can arbitrarily be anything at all.  And,   
   >>>>>>> when in rome...   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> So social structures cannot be the basis for natural law or any   
   >>>>>>> universal principle.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> You have it backwards. Natural law is the basis for useful well working   
   >>>>>> social structures that actually benefit people.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Social structure cannot be the basis because they are random.  While   
   >>>>> natural law would, of course be unchangeable.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> That is once again the exact opposite of what I'm saying.   
   >>>   
   >>> You want to say that social structures can have some natural law as a   
   >>> basis.  Natural law being your opinion.   
   >>>   
   >> Did Wilson say that? Maybe you just made that up.   
   >   
   > Maybe you should ask him.   
   >   
   You said he said that but he didn't say that you made it up ask him if   
   he said that.   
    >   
      
   >>> I say the universe does not work that way.   You cannot make a natural   
   >>> law out of libertarianism.  Or any other human ism.  Natural law has   
   >>> nothing to do with the welfare or not of humans, except that nature   
   >>> wants more babies and wants them to reach breeding age.   
   >>>   
   >> Not sure where you went to college.   
   >   
   > Stop by the house.  I will show you my degrees.   
   >   
   Anyone can print up degrees.   
    >   
      
   >> Most everyone accepts the core premise that there is a universal moral   
   >> order, discoverable by reason, independent of human-made law or specific   
   >> religious doctrine.   
   >   
   > That's a pretty big we.   
    >   
   The key words are "We the people..."   
    >   
   We have some here who contest the use of such we's.   
   >   
   You may be on to something there! We does not include China: A one-party   
   state with a "socialist-oriented market economy".   
   Cuba: A "socialist-oriented market economy," balancing state control   
   with markets.   
   Laos: A socialist republic, often grouped with China, Cuba, and Vietnam   
   as officially communist.   
   North Korea: A hardline, centrally planned command economy with extreme   
   state control.   
    >   
      
   >> Natural law is the framework for human rights.   
   >   
   > You mean the opinions of people who might enumerate human rights.   
   >   
   the concept of a natural law of human rights holds that certain rights   
   are inherent, universal, and inalienable, derived from human nature and   
   reason rather than granted by governments.   
      
   >> There are exceptions: nihilists and dictators.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>> Whether your property is protected against those who think you don't   
   >>> deserve it has nothing to do with anything that moves through the   
   >>> eons.   
   >>>   
   >>> Tyrannosaurus rex did not think it was entitled to anything except   
   >>> dinner if it were able to catch it.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)