From: fedora@fea.st
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 19:55:00 -0800, Dude wrote:
>On 2/11/2026 7:20 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 18:10:42 -0800, Dude wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/11/2026 1:39 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 13:15:49 -0800, Dude wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/11/2026 12:39 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 15:26:37 -0500, Wilson
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/11/2026 12:13 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:43:07 -0500, Wilson
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/10/2026 11:30 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 22:59:09 -0500, Noah Sombrero
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 16:12:36 -0800, Dude
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/10/2026 2:12 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 12:49:10 -0800, Dude
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nihilism is the rejection of all religious and moral
principles, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> belief that life is meaningless. YMMV.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's the thing. Moral principles need not be meaningful. It
is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to have them and understand their worth to a meaningless
human
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We studied this at the community college: Political Science (a
required
>>>>>>>>>>>> course).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Natural law proponents, from Aristotle to John Locke, have argued
that
>>>>>>>>>>>> laws enacted by governments are only valid if they conform to a
higher,
>>>>>>>>>>>> natural, and moral law. It's the basis for inalienable rights
such as
>>>>>>>>>>>> life, liberty, and property.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You snuck that last one in yourself, didn't you?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think that statement is far too idealistic. Social structures
need
>>>>>>>>>>> laws that detail what happens if I kill your dog or you kill my
cat,
>>>>>>>>>>> metaphorically.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Happenings that are too trivial to require a natural law, but for
>>>>>>>>>>> which there must be consequences.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because social structures can arbitrarily be anything at all. And,
>>>>>>>>>> when in rome...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So social structures cannot be the basis for natural law or any
>>>>>>>>>> universal principle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You have it backwards. Natural law is the basis for useful well
working
>>>>>>>>> social structures that actually benefit people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Social structure cannot be the basis because they are random. While
>>>>>>>> natural law would, of course be unchangeable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is once again the exact opposite of what I'm saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You want to say that social structures can have some natural law as a
>>>>>> basis. Natural law being your opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Did Wilson say that? Maybe you just made that up.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you should ask him.
>>>>
>>> You said he said that but he didn't say that you made it up ask him if
>>> he said that.
>>
>> You are the one who wants to challenge my honesty. So you check up on
>> me. I am not feeling insecure about the whole thing.
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I say the universe does not work that way. You cannot make a natural
>>>>>> law out of libertarianism. Or any other human ism. Natural law has
>>>>>> nothing to do with the welfare or not of humans, except that nature
>>>>>> wants more babies and wants them to reach breeding age.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure where you went to college.
>>>>
>>>> Stop by the house. I will show you my degrees.
>>>>
>>> Anyone can print up degrees.
>>
>> Anything can be faked. Ultimately, in personal relationships, those
>> who refuse to trust are unworthy of trust.
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Most everyone accepts the core premise that there is a universal moral
>>>>> order, discoverable by reason, independent of human-made law or specific
>>>>> religious doctrine.
>>>>
>>>> That's a pretty big we.
>>>>
>>> The key words are "We the people..."
>>
>> And that statement did not preface propounding a universal moral
>> order.
>>
>>> universal moral order, discoverable by reason, independent of human-made
law or specific
>>> religious doctrine.
>>
>> How do you detect when a person thinks they have discovered such, but
>> have not really? They are the ones who proceed to tell you about this
>> "universal moral order".
>>
>>>>
>>> We have some here who contest the use of such we's.
>>>>
>>> You may be on to something there! We does not include China: A one-party
>>> state with a "socialist-oriented market economy".
>>> Cuba: A "socialist-oriented market economy," balancing state control
>>> with markets.
>>> Laos: A socialist republic, often grouped with China, Cuba, and Vietnam
>>> as officially communist.
>>> North Korea: A hardline, centrally planned command economy with extreme
>>> state control.
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Natural law is the framework for human rights.
>>>>
>>>> You mean the opinions of people who might enumerate human rights.
>>>>
>>> the concept of a natural law of human rights holds that certain rights
>>> are inherent, universal, and inalienable, derived from human nature and
>>> reason rather than granted by governments.
>>
>> Like right to life? How many dead people are there in the world? It
>> does seem to me their right to life was alienated.-
>>
>You have a right to die with dignity.
How about the person who is trapped in a car after a crash, and then
the car explodes. It seems to me that person is alienated from a
right to death with dignity.
> > > When you are in the womb, there is no guarantee that you will be born,
>> or that once born, you will live 5 minutes.
>>
>> But when you are 100, the guarantee becomes ever more sure that you
>> will not see 101 or 102 or 103.
>>
>> You have no right to life. Witnessing a few deaths teaches us exactly
>> how fragile we are.
>>
>You have the right to off yourself, or not.
Unless you try and fail, then many people in the world would tell you
you had no right to do that.
--
Noah Sombrero mustachioed villain
Don't get political with me young man
or I'll tie you to a railroad track and
<<>> to <<>>
Who dares to talk to El Sombrero?
dares: Ned
does not dare: Julian shrinks in horror and warns others away
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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