From: Wilson@nowhere.invalid   
      
   On 2/12/2026 12:29 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   > On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 12:07:35 -0500, Wilson    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 2/11/2026 10:20 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 18:10:42 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>> On 2/11/2026 1:39 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 13:15:49 -0800, Dude  wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> Most everyone accepts the core premise that there is a universal moral   
   >>>>>> order, discoverable by reason, independent of human-made law or specific   
   >>>>>> religious doctrine.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> That's a pretty big we.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>> The key words are "We the people..."   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> And that statement did not preface propounding a universal moral   
   >>> order.   
   >>   
   >> It actually did do that, inherently and objectively.   
   >>   
   >> "We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect   
   >> Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the   
   >> common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the blessings of   
   >> liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this   
   >> Constitution for the United States of America."   
      
   > No this is a document that defines the structure of a government; it   
   > in no way propounds a universal moral order.   
      
   "a more perfect union" - Directly implies the existence of universal   
   principles which if followed will lead to greater harmony and order.   
      
   "establish justice" - For justice to exist there must be universal moral   
   principles.   
      
   "secure the blessings of liberty" - Directly points to the benefits of   
   individual freedom.   
      
   You're unable to see the water you're swimming in.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)