From: fedora@fea.st   
      
   On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 13:49:22 -0500, Wilson    
   wrote:   
      
   >On 2/16/2026 1:39 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >> On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 13:16:48 -0500, Wilson    
   >> wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 2/16/2026 11:12 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 10:42:33 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>> wrote:   
   >>>>> On 2/16/2026 10:30 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 09:48:30 -0500, Wilson    
   >>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 2/15/2026 4:29 PM, Tara wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2026 at 4:25:11?PM EST, "Noah Sombrero"    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 20:22:59 -0000 (UTC), Tara    
   >>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2026 at 2:37:22?PM EST, "Noah Sombrero"    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 19:05:01 -0000 (UTC), Tara    
   >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> I fail to understand the denial that when you bring men from a   
   deeply   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> patriarchal culture where there are high levels of (accepted)   
   gender-based   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> violence against women and dump them in a society where women and   
   girls are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> ?available?  that this could and will happen.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Especially india.  Common but not accepted.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_women_in_India   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> You might remember that in canada within the past 10 years or so   
   there   
   >>>>>>>>>>> was one case of an honor killing of a wife and daughters of a   
   >>>>>>>>>>> pakistani immigrant family.  The father in that case will likely   
   not   
   >>>>>>>>>>> ever get out of canadian prison.  He thought they were straying   
   from   
   >>>>>>>>>>> sharia law and so bringing dishonor on him.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> The fact that there has been one such case has not meant that there   
   >>>>>>>>>>> have been multitudes in the minds of canadians.  It did encourage   
   an   
   >>>>>>>>>>> awareness that people from other cultures need to become aware of   
   >>>>>>>>>>> canadian values when they come here.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> We haven't had to deal with anything like the scope they've had   
   happen in the   
   >>>>>>>>>> UK.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Taking julian's article at face value then:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> The indians and pakistanis that come here must be quite similar to   
   >>>>>>>>> those that go to uk.  It cannot be simply a matter of culture or race   
   >>>>>>>>> or of hormonal problems.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> I don't know   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> It could be the attitude of the people and the police that make a   
   >>>>>>> difference.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Agreed.  Pervasive criminality is a symptom of a sick society.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> If society turns a blind eye to wrongdoing and does not discourage it,   
   >>>>>>> it is effectively encouraged.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> This is the opposite of the above.  I don't see any blind eyes up   
   >>>>>> here.  I see absence of accused indian/pakistani inherent behaviors   
   >>>>>> that manifest elsewhere.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Again you pretend to not understand what I am saying.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Canada does not have the problems of England because they have not   
   >>>>> turned a blind eye to them and enforces the law. Pervasive criminality   
   >>>>> grows out of not doing that.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> And it has nothing to do with being tolerant as tara says?   
   >>>   
   >>> Tara's said nothing in this thread regarding Canadian tolerance.   
   >>   
   >> Actually she did.  It is there if you want to read it.   
   >>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You say criminality flourishes when laws are not enforced.  I say   
   >>>> criminality is a response to how people are treated.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> There has been no flood of indian/pakistani criminal behavior to   
   >>>> respond to.  Although it is very likely that canadian prisons have   
   >>>> populations of such people proportional to their presence in society.   
   >>>   
   >>> The apparent lack of widespread criminal behavior by migrants in Canada   
   >>> could be because they are treated well there. One way to test this is to   
   >>> determine if they've been treated worse in England.   
   >>>   
   >>> If England hasn't treated them worse than Canada we have to look for   
   >>> other reasons.   
   >>   
   >> That would be true, if england has treated them as well.  One place to   
   >> start looking would be the general attitude towards immigrants.  Does   
   >> julian's article give you some indication of that?   
   >>   
   >> What we know is that since it seems unlikely that uk and canada get   
   >> different indian and pakistani immigrant populations, it can't be a   
   >> matter of race, culture or hormones.   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> It seems to me England has gone out of its way to treat migrants lightly.   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> One thing that gets reported from time to time is that blacks are   
   >>>> highly overpresent in us prisons proportional to their presence in   
   >>>> society.  I would observe that fact does not seem to be dampening   
   >>>> black criminality, otherwise black populations would be decreasing in   
   >>>> prison.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I have no doubt you want to put the blame for that on the inherent   
   >>>> nature of black people.  Right?   
   >>>   
   >>> "Right?"   
   >>>   
   >>> I've never "put the blame" on the inherent nature of any group. In fact   
   >>> over the years I have repeatedly said that differences in group behavior   
   >>> are mostly due to cultural influences which vary around the world.   
   >>   
   >> We are talking about prison populations in the us.   
   >>   
   >>> So you're wildly misrepresenting what I believe.   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> One thing that a person might notice about prison, is that criminals   
   >>>> plan to get away with it.  So the prospect of prison is not going to   
   >>>> be a big deterrent.   
   >>>   
   >>> What people think about their chances of getting away with their crime   
   >>> is not the only reason for holding criminals accountable.   
   >>   
   >> It has nothing to do with holding people accountable.  It has to do   
   >> with why incarceration does not prevent crime.   
   >>   
   >>> If nothing   
   >>> else, prison removes the offender from society so they cannot continue   
   >>> harming the general public for a time.   
   >>   
   >> As if that should be the goal in dealing with those people.  Why put   
   >> criminals in a situation where they can learn to be more effective   
   >> criminals?   
   >>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I fundamentally disagree with many things you believe even if it seems   
   >>>> to you that you do not believe such things.  That does not mean I use   
   >>>> dishonest tactics in debating with you.  It means I do not accept what   
   >>>> you say no matter how many times you say it.   
   >>>   
   >>> So you're accusing me of holding beliefs (and being wrong about them)   
   >>> while claiming I might not even recognize those beliefs as my own.   
   >>   
   >> Racism.   
   >>   
   >>> You're saying, "I can see through you in ways you can’t see yourself".   
   >>   
   >> You don't see it.   
   >>   
      
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