From: fedora@fea.st
On Thu, 19 Feb 2026 11:39:47 -0800, Dude wrote:
>On 2/19/2026 10:00 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Feb 2026 09:43:43 -0800, Dude wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/18/2026 5:40 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 15:58:35 -0800, Dude wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/16/2026 11:40 AM, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/16/2026 1:53 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 13:28:36 -0500, Wilson
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/16/2026 12:43 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 12:39:32 -0500, Noah Sombrero
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 11:55:59 -0500, Wilson
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/16/2026 11:21 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 10:38:22 -0500, Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/16/2026 10:22 AM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 10:05:27 -0500, Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/15/2026 11:46 PM, Creon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At Wed, 11 Feb 2026 15:26:37 -0500, Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/11/2026 12:13 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:43:07 -0500, Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/10/2026 11:30 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 22:59:09 -0500, Noah Sombrero
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 16:12:36 -0800, Dude
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/10/2026 2:12 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 12:49:10 -0800, Dude
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nihilism is the rejection of all religious and moral
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> principles, in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> belief that life is meaningless. YMMV.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's the thing. Moral principles need not be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningful. It is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to have them and understand their worth to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningless human
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We studied this at the community college: Political
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Science (a required
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Natural law proponents, from Aristotle to John Locke,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have argued that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws enacted by governments are only valid if they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conform to a higher,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> natural, and moral law. It's the basis for inalienable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights such as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life, liberty, and property.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You snuck that last one in yourself, didn't you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that statement is far too idealistic. Social
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> structures need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws that detail what happens if I kill your dog or you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kill my cat,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> metaphorically.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Happenings that are too trivial to require a natural
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law, but for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which there must be consequences.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because social structures can arbitrarily be anything at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all. And,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when in rome...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So social structures cannot be the basis for natural law
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universal principle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have it backwards. Natural law is the basis for useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well working
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> social structures that actually benefit people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Social structure cannot be the basis because they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> random. While
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> natural law would, of course be unchangeable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is once again the exact opposite of what I'm saying.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was confused by that as well -- Noah seems to have not read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your paragraph accurately.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding objective ethics, I submit that study of Game Theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (part of Information Theory, part of Mathematics) can be used
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop a system of ethics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Morals are the ethics of conscience." -Anon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just as we have "God-given" Rights to Life, Liberty, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pursuit of Happiness; we also have "God-given" reason,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conscience,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a sense of justice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you're being too kind, Noah's apparent lack of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost certainly a debate tactic designed to wear out the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other side by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repeatedly misstating what people are saying and pretending to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So a person might think who finds what they want to believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repeatedly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confronted with arguments they can't answer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not without attempting to discredit my motives and my sincerity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Log, eye.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Oh, I think you are quite aware of it when you post something that
is
>>>>>>>>>> simply not true. Gobbets was wrong. Repeating a lie does not
>>>>>>>>>> transform it unless the truth is also silenced.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What love said about the effect on you of your commitment to your
>>>>>>>>>> ideology.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He was always more articulate than me, and did not agree with me on
>>>>>>>>>> much, but on that, yes, that comment is important to understanding
>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My spell check strikes again.
>>>>>>>>> Gobbets->Goebbels.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The connection is made: I think things, just like Goebbels!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you repeat lies. Perhaps you were thinking that would
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