XPost: comp.sys.atari.8bit, comp.sys.cbm   
   From: kingcommodorus@mastersofcommodore.org   
      
   X-No-Archive:yes   
      
   Face it, the ATARI 800 XL and XE machines were a failure and the C64 killed   
   these systems.   
      
   Let me tell you WHY the 800 failed and why the C64 is so much better:   
      
   Sprites :   
      
   The ATARI 800 has 8 mediocre sprites. 4 1-colored players, only 8 lores   
   pixels wide and 4 missiles, only 2 pixels wide.   
      
   This is ridiculous compared to the 8 HiRes sprites of the C64 which are   
   24*21 pixels in HiRes or 12*21 in Multicolor.   
      
   C64 wins   
      
   C64 : 1 ATARI : 0   
      
   Graphics :   
      
   The ATARI has 256 colors - but where? All the colors look the same and admit   
   it, the ATARI doesn't even have a decent red. The colors of the ATARI 8 Bits   
   are blurry, ridiculous and not as sharp as the C64's colors.   
      
   In HiRes, the A8 can only use 2 colors.The C64 can use all 16. The A8 can   
   use   
   artifacting, but the colors look like old PC CGA colors.Ugly.And this   
   doesn't   
   work on PAL machines, all they get is a monochrome screen.   
      
   Most games on the ATARI are just 4 color games. Because the ATARI can't   
   display more than 4 colors in multicolor mode. You say Display List   
   interrupts?   
   They are ridiculous. Only a few ugly "copperlist" effects can be found in   
   games   
   or demos. Take a look at the C64s FLI pictures. They blow the ATARI away.   
      
   ATARI's 256 color mode - ridiculous, the resolution is only 80*96 and these   
   pictures look bad.   
      
   Colorview? Flickers badly.   
      
   All those Polish picture formats? Flicker like hell.   
      
   The C64's FLI modes kick ass and the ATARI can't do anything similar.   
      
   Scrolling? C64 does scroll in HiRes, much smoother than the ATARI.With   
   good programming, the C64 beats the ATARI.   
      
   C64 wins   
      
   C64 : 2 ATARI : 0   
      
   Sound :   
      
   Not much to say. Listen to all those SID songs in the High Voltage SID   
   Collection and compare them to the lame POKEY sounds in the   
   SAP Archive.   
      
   There is not a single song on the ATARI that can compete with the   
   C64.Forget it.Check games like International Karate, Warhawk   
   and Thrust; the C64 music in all those games is far better than   
   the POKEY music.   
      
   Oh, the ATARI has Softsynth. But admit it, Softsynth does take   
   most of the CPU time.It's like a soundtracker player. You   
   can't even display any decent graphics while using it.   
   The C64 can do something like that, too, but with only a fraction   
   of the CPU-time the ATARI needs.   
      
   SID is in an entirely different league. POKEY can only be   
   compared with the AY soundchip, but not with the SID.   
      
   C64 : 3 ATARI: 0   
      
   Compatibility/DOS :   
      
   The ATARI had always compatibility issues. How many different ATARI   
   8 Bit machines are there? Some with 16K like 400 or 600 XL, some   
   with 48K like the 800 and some with 64K like the 800 XL and the   
   128K 130 XE.   
      
   They have at least 2 different versions of the OS. Some old programs   
   won't work on the XL/XE machines. XL/XE programs won't work   
   on the old 48K machines with the old OS.   
      
   They didn't really improve th XL/XE machines. No better   
   graphics, still the same 1-colored 4 players and 4 missiles   
   and the extra 16K RAM are almost impossible to find.   
      
   ATARI has many different floppies and 4 densities, single, medium,   
   double and quad. This is confusing.   
      
   Also confusing are the dozens of DOS versions. Even worse than on   
   MS DOS machines.   
      
   The C64 did never have this compatibility issues. Programs worked   
   on every C64. No 16K machines, no 48K machines, only THE C64.   
      
   And the C64 didn't have such a lame DOS. It has its disk operating   
   system and it works.You don't have to search for the correct DOS,   
   you have only one density and everything works on every C64.   
      
   This made the ATARI too complicated. Software companies had   
   to mess around with 16K,48K and 64K machines , two OS   
   versions and at least 3 densities of disks.   
      
   Too complicated, that means too expensive, so companies decided   
   to make programs for the C64, which is far easier to use.   
      
   And don't let us talk about cassette recorders. The ATARI   
   cassette recorders are slow.Very slow. They can play music   
   while loading, but who needs that? The C64 can load   
   very fast from tapes, while loading with the ATARI takes   
   ages.   
      
   C64 wins   
      
   C64: 4 ATARI: 0   
      
   BASIC :   
      
   The C64 BASIC isn't very good, any C64 user has to   
   admit that.   
      
   BUT, it forced us to learn POKEs and learning POKEs is   
   the first step to learn Assembler, machine language.   
      
   I'd say the bad BASIC of the C64 forced many programmers   
   to learn machine language and that was good.   
   We don't have too many lame BASIC programs on the C64.   
      
   The ATARI 800 BASIC isn't really good, but good enough   
   for a large amount of pretty lame BASIC programs.   
      
   I'd give the ATARI 1 point for the BASIC, but my opinion   
   is that BASIC doesn't matter at all. Good games are written in   
   machine language.   
      
   C64: 4 ATARI: 1   
      
   Software/Games :   
      
   Many ATARI users keep telling us that the ATARI had   
   "incredibly" strong games in the early 80s such as   
   Ballblazer or Koronis Rift. Yes, this may be the truth,   
   because the ATARI was a machine of the 70s and   
   the early 80s.   
      
   After 1985, all the ATARI got was mostly lame ports   
   or even more lame budget games. This is because   
   the ATARI's hardware is 70s technology, it   
   cannot compete with a C64, it's more on the   
   level of a VC20.   
      
   The ATARI simply wasn't capable of the   
   80s arcade games which required many   
   sprites, colorful sprites.   
      
   Look at most of the games that do exist for both   
   systems. Only some of the early games were   
   better on the ATARI, because the programmers   
   had to learn how to code the superior C64 first.   
      
   No game that was released after 1985 is better   
   on the ATARI 800.   
      
   Alternate Reality? Not really a great game. The   
   ATARI does use some ugly color-bars, the   
   C64 version is better.   
      
   Ghostbusters - the ATARI version looks   
   inferior and lacks most of the speech.   
      
   International Karate - the music on the ATARI   
   is far worse.   
      
   Rampage - ridiculous 1-color sprites on the ATARI,   
   this is a joke when compared to the C64 version.   
      
   Arkanoid - ugly graphics, ugly colors, cannot be   
   compared to the C64 version.   
      
   Mercenary - wireframe graphics, it's basically   
   the same on both systems   
      
   Druid - ugly, blocky sprites on the ATARI,   
   cannot be compated to the C64 version   
      
   There are not many games to compare, because most   
   software houses abandoned the ATARI 8 Bit after   
   1985, the right decision in my opinion. The hardware   
   was just to "70s"-style, too weak for the games of   
   the 80s that required sprites and many colors.   
      
   C64 wins with its thousands of games   
      
   C64 : 5 ATARI: 1   
      
   Result :   
      
   The C64 totally beats the ATARI machines. The ATARI   
   machines are absolutely inferior and they can only   
   be compared with systems like the VC20 or the Apple II.   
      
   The C64 was one of the main reasons, the ATARI 800   
   machines died. The C64, with its modern, superior   
   technology, killed the ATARI systems and the   
   software developers abandoned this old 70s system.   
      
   This is the reason, the C64 dominated the 80s and the   
   8 Bit era. It was cheap, powerful and easy to   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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