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From: NOT-SURE@idiocracy.gov
On 7/16/22 7:53 PM, -hh wrote:
> On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 3:12:13 PM UTC-4, BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
>> On 7/16/22 2:23 PM, David Hartung wrote:
>>> On 7/15/2022 4:05 AM, NoBody wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 09:44:51 -0500, "Lee" wrote:
>>>>> Electric vehicles flying off
>>>>> dealership lots amid high gas prices
>>>>> July 12
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where is the electricity coming from to power these, Lying Lee?
>>>
>>> From the grid and from home solar panels, you stupid cocksucker.
>>
>> The real cost isn't the AVERAGE $41,000.00 cost of a new car/EV but also
>> includes the solar panels and charging system and/or the cost of the
>> GRID being upgraded to handle more electricity demand and black out
>> protection so the relays on the GRID don't start tripping and create a
>> blackout that puts an entire region into a black-out?
>
> Average ICE new car today is more than $47K, so there’s already $6K/unit
> on hand to budget for infrastructure (or for buyers to take as a cost
savings).
>
Given the rapid inflation the costs are climbing by $4K to $5K a year at
10% inflation so we could, be using different years numbers and be off
by $10,000 simply by older data.
>> And of course if 5% of the GRID ELECTRICITY use is the EV's charging,
>> then 5% of the GRID must be powered by SOLAR *and/or* WIND so that the
>> cars can be considered "sustainable" energy users and then after you
>> have built in 5% solar/wind on the grid the problem is all the Fossil
>> Fuel used to build those sustainable grid systems and the EV's
>> themselves and home SOLAR power systems that used fossil fuel to build them.
>> It may take a while for the EV cars and the grid to reach a zero Carbon
>> point of return on the sustainable energy use so they are no longer
>> Carbon negative as they are when they come off the assembly lines.
>
> Good thing then that renewables on the US electric grid is already at 20%.
> Your ‘concern’ was already obsolete back in 2010 (when it was at 10%).
You neglect the fact that it's years before that 20% of the grid
reaches ZERO CARBON in it's life span.
All the GRID upgrades for that 20% also has to reach carbon neutral
before you can gleefully celebrate that the grid is 20% renewable energy.
And then there's the problem that the last things I read suggest the
U.S. Grid has about 5% solar and wind... but I'm thinking HYDRO has
been our long term renewable that can get you to maybe 10% as I remember
seeing the charts where hydro was only 5%. Which means that if 10% of
the grids electric is being used to charge cars batteries there is a
case to be made that what ever that number of EV's make up that 10% of
the grid use then most of the grid's NEW SUSTAINABLE power production
and distribution that has been in service for 5 to 10 years has reached
Carbon neutral and That number is going to be far less than 10% the
entire grid and far less than 10% of the EV cars on the road.
>
>> That's also assuming they last long enough to reach that *zero carbon*
>> *point of return and start producing sustainable energy* a certain
>> percentage of the products will be faulty or have problems soon after
>> being purchased and cars will have accidents and lightning and weather
>> will destroy solar and wind generation and that will all be part of the
>> CARBON neutral point of the system-wide return on investment.
>
> Why assume? Because current Fed regulations already require that
> manufacturers to warranty their EV’s to last long enough to do that.
Which means that when they don't because of lightening to a windmill
that burns to a crisp or an EV car that's totaled in a battery FIRE and
burns down the HOUSE, suddenly all the energy to build new houses cars
and wind generators becomes a new NEGATIVE in carbon used column that
takes the replacement longer to become carbon neutral.
>
>> I'd say we're looking at not getting the bulk of the EV and SOLAR/WIND
>> to being Carbon neutral for years... and years and years.
>
> Years and years in the past, because the EV marketshare of the fleet isn’t
even
> at 10% yet (2010), let alone at 20% (current).
Which means figuring carbon-in/carbon-out to find the carbon-neutral
point in the life of an item and where it is as a running ratio would
take some math... but the point is we aren't there yet and anything on
the road or in service on the grid that is less than 5 years old isn't
likely carbon neutral yet. Things should be sold with a "real time" in
use number to represent how long it takes to claim that it's
Carbon-neutral and is no longer producing or using energy that was
carbon based and is actually what GLOBAL WARMING NUTS call sustainable
energy... I'm still waiting for a wind mill or solar panel that is made
by 100% NON carbon energy.
And on the positive side, EV's and windmills have been being put into
use as more than just tests and research and development for more than 5
years, so some of the problems and failures and fixes have worked their
way into the NEW sustainable MARKET PLACE but it will be at least 5
years more before those items sold will get to zero carbon and you can
start calling them carbon-neutral. Doing the math may show that it's NOT
linear and the more you get on line the more quickly the ratio would
show the those things reaching carbon-neutral.
and then there's the problem of inflation and debt slowing down the
growth of the economy which will all but stop the EV sales and solar
panel sales and investment in expansion by commercial power companies.
Everything will become as it did in the 1970's under Jimmy Carter, but
on a sweater and don't use energy... which undermines the idea that you
will ever get enough Solar/Wind Hydro/Thermal to get over the real hump
of sustainable energy being able to sustain it's self, without being
built and maintained/subsidized by the fossil energy industry and making
the... the idea of sustainable a *reality which has yet to be achieved* .
--
-That's karma-
Democrats will take your cars and guns and food and they will begin
their occupation as they control energy that allows them total control
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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