[continued from previous message]   
      
   in trace amounts right now.  Your body structure and the plants   
   structure is carbon.   
      
   What the "optimum" CO2 level is, isn't based on the temperature in your   
   back yard...   
      
      
   > You're just not able to readily recognize them.  Cap & trade follows the   
   basic principle   
   > that most people learned in kindergarten, which is that you're responsible   
   to (pay) to   
   > clean up the mess you made, not leave it for others to clean up after you.   
   >   
      
   That's not true. ONLY when you do harm to others violating their rights   
   are you forced to pay and it's for the courts to determine who's RIGHTS   
   were infringed by whom. LAWS to adjust dollar value to allow that harm   
   to continue would be deleterious to the RIGHT of people to free trade of   
   legal items like cigarettes or a Bar-B-Q, you could tax them for CO2 or   
   combustion engines for CO2 and why NOT tax SOLAR/WIND for the CO2 used   
   to make them and maintain them?   
      
   You violate only the RIGHTS of fossil fuel producers and users... with   
   cap and trade. rather than the many others there are a million places   
   that cap and trade can be laid to reduce CO2... except that's NOT really   
   the goal of the CAP and TRADE is it?  The real use of CAP and TRADE is   
   power to force people to do what the people making the laws want done   
   and they can do that and violate the RIGHTS of those people and get away   
   with it.   
      
   >> and when there aren't enough batteries to power everything....   
   >   
   Cap and trade laws and then shortages and then rationing by the   
   GOVERNMENT that made the laws... more power and more power and they   
   violate our RIGHTS to get their power.   
      
   > We innovate and create other means of power banking, as well as to   
   > make more efficient products.   
   >   
      
   How that working out, more power would mean your cost of energy should   
   be going down... supply/demand but I don't see it. Most people are now   
   struggling to eat and stay warm.   
      
   >> there will be shortages ...   
      
   CAP and TRADE guarantee it. And then there will be rationing.   
   >   
   > There's already shortages.  And I'm not referring to just 2022.   
   >   
   >> I see that economics is not your strong suit...   
   >   
   > It doesn't need to be my strong suit - - merely better than your's.   
   > But you can try to humor us with proving what your net worth is.   
   >   
      
   If it was your strong suit, you wouldn't be pushing communist style cap   
   and trade and rationing.   
      
   >>>> And it's misleading most Americans who don't understand the way food and   
   >>>> energy is produced and used. Converting fossil to electricity and then   
   >>>> transmitting across a grid with line loss for cars to use wastes energy   
   >>>> in the conversion then storing it in batteries wastes energy too.   
   >>>   
   >>> Oh, is that because there's absolutely no transformation energy loss nodes   
   >>> in fossil fuel systems? No, that's not it.   
   >>   
   >> Depends on your location and the volumes being transferred, a pipe line ...   
   >   
   > Nope.  Entropy is everywhere.   
   >   
   >   
   >>>> Things like EV ambulances... or fire trucks...   
   >>>   
   >>> Are <1% niche cases, and if they're not superior can be promptly ignored   
   during   
   >>> this 'early adopters' period of Roger's diffusion of innovations and be   
   put with   
   >>> the 'laggards'   
   >>>   
   >> Pricing out EMERGENCY SERVICES seems deadly to me.   
   >   
   > So then don't covert them to EV.  We're trying to be wise and apply the   
   Pareto   
   > Principle here to get the biggest benefit for lowest cost.   
   >   
      
   But the price of gas in some places is getting close to $10/gal   
      
   Budgets are being busted.   
      
      
   >>>> ... to try to MANDATE gasoline costs so that people have to   
   >>>> decide all or none...   
   >>>   
   >>> Who's "MANDATE"ing retail gasoline prices? Not the Fed, that's for sure.   
   >>   
   >> People who cancel pipe lines and drilling contracts with the Federal   
   >> lands for starters...   
   >   
   > The pipes were illegally approved and following Rule of Law required that   
   > cancellation to be done.   Likewise, the drilling contracts had to be put on   
   > hold because the oil industry filed a lawsuit.  That lawsuit was because they   
   > were contesting that 2015 lease rates were being restored after Trump slashed   
   > them in a corporate giveaway of taxpayer owned property.   
   >   
      
   Interesting that a lease can be ignored by the executive branch of   
   government.   
      
   >> ... and it becomes a problem of regulations on use and EPA   
   >> standards and Biden selling NATIONAL SECURITY RESERVES.. and   
   >> starting wars and it's Democrat policy.   
   >   
   > The Strategic Reserve release prevented oil from spiking to $200/bbl and   
   > causing more inflation; you're welcome.   
      
      
   Who caused the inflation in the oil costs? We all know it was the   
   BidenRegime and the Democrats GLOBAL WARMING agenda and green policies.   
      
      
   >   
   > And Russia chose to invade.   
   >   
      
   After inflation and oil inflation was well under way so Putin took   
   advantage of the weakness created by Democrats.  Putin wasn't the cause   
   of the initial inflation or the cause of the weak feckless policies of   
   the DEMOCRATS that opened up the opportunity that he stepped in and   
   grabbed.  Invading Russia was Biden and the Democrats fault.   
      
   It all tracks right back to the Democrats door step. The inflation is   
   all Democrats and you can throw in the human cost of the pain and   
   suffering in Ukraine as well...   
      
      
   >   
   >>>> but like most things here I didn't push an all or none agenda,   
   >>>   
   >>> Yeah, you did, when you started clutching your pearls on ambulances & fire   
   trucks.   
   >>>   
   >> NO, I pointed out that "your position" is all or none... with that pearl   
   >> of wisdom.   
   >   
   > No, my position is not all or none.  Stop lying.   
   >   
      
   You support all the CAP and TRADE mandates on energy to force people to   
   submit to their financial limits that you create... and that position   
   forces the cost of EMERGENCY SERVICES to rise making it less likely they   
   can get to every call and if they change to EV's as you want to force   
   them to do, then they might NOT have the capacity in rolling black outs   
   to charge their trucks to go out on calls or to get stuck half way   
   between on a call causing deaths...  The EV EMERGENCY vehicle isn't a   
   proven idea and now the cost of using combustion engines is also going   
   to create failure in the system.   
      
   I didn't say to do that, I'm happy with people doing as they wish   
   without CAP AND TRADE mandates and subsidies... my system would allow   
   people to change over time on their own. SO the EMERGENCY EV issue could   
   be rectified without creating life and death obstacles.   
      
   >   
   >> The GLOBAL WARMING cult says we have to get rid of combustion engines...   
   >   
   > So?  That's a kooky cult, who are almost as wrong as the climate deniers.   
   >   
   >>>> I figure if you get to 5%-10% EV cars and Solar houses outside "the   
   >>>> efficient grid use area" which means anyone living in a minimum   
   >>>> population density then I'm happy with that.   
   >>>   
   >>> EVs have already reached the tipping point, and the luddites are going   
   >>> to scream bloody murder about it until they die off.   
   >>   
   >> NOTHING TO SCREAM ABOUT, if forced it will either work or it will   
   >> collapse killing Millions or Billions of people.   
   >   
   > What you don't want to recognize is that we're heading to a catastrophic   
   > worldwide economic collapse if we continue to do nothing that will make   
   > the Dark Ages look like a pleasant afternoon picnic.   
      
   This collapse was created by the GLOBAL WARMING cult.   
      
   It's NOT avoiding collapse when they do it to gain political power.   
   It's called a kinetic war where they take our own crisis and compound it   
   to be more of a crisis than it was...   
      
   >   
   >> Farming, your food will be on the line, fail and you starve.   
   >   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)