From: DominicandCaitlinsDad@comcast.net   
      
   > To the contrary Kevin, I think you don't understand that we're coming from   
   > totally different angles for the same thing.   
      
   I agree we both think that our children come first.   
      
   > >June, I never   
   > > ONCE implied a homeschooled child never leaves the home.  >   
   > I didn't think I hadn't. However, with that statement you've kind of   
   summed   
   > it up; education isn't about exams. Education occurs everywhere if you're   
   > Home Educating, and I do literally mean everywhere. I'm not saying that   
   the   
   > school system is wrong, just that the way of learning whilst Home   
   Educating   
   > is entirely different.   
      
   I agree it is different.  Tests are set to show that a child has learned a   
   prescribed set of curriculum.  I have to use the tests (and I don't like   
   tests) to show that I've done my job as an educator in the public school   
   system.  Learning never stops, that is OBVIOUS, and teaching never stops,   
   that is just as OBVIOUS.  I don't think you understand that I agree with   
   you.  That is just part of being a parent....you have to teach or supplement   
   what your child needs.  I am not allowed, for example, to teach sex ed., but   
   then again, I wouldn't want to.  I think that is for the parents to teach.   
   I also don't want a public educator to teach my children that subject.  I'm   
   uncomfortable with that.    Public schooling does expect parental support in   
   many areas, such as that.   
      
   > Only if you *want* to divide it in to compartments. This is what I'm   
   saying,   
   > what you don't seem to be picking up. For us the whole gamut of discussion   
   > *isn't* seperate. We can be discussing things socially and it will mutate   
   in   
   > to an educational discussion and they might not even realise it; there are   
   > no set hours for learning, they learn the whole time they're awake. Every   
   > single conversation has a potential for imparting knowledge.   
      
      
   I agree conversations all have potential, but then REALITY sets in, and you   
   will never be able to convince me that every single one of you and your   
   children's conversations are learning moments.  And quite honestly, they   
   shouldn't have to be.   
      
   > >I don't learn the fundamentals of long division   
   > > by doing that, do I?> Why not? My then 8 year old started to learn about   
   fractions after watching   
   > a Rugrats episode that brought up some questions. Fractions can be taught   
   > during cookery, for example. Every situation can be employed. This is a   
   > fundamental difference between HE and school. I understand the difference,   
   > but I'm not sure you're seeing it at the moment.   
      
   I disagree.  You will never learn long division by discussing on the phone   
   with a friend the local gossip.  I do agree that you can teach lessons off   
   of what a child watches on tv, I do it all the time.  Does that mean my   
   children are better educated?  Not really, it means that I have taken the   
   time as a parent to communicate with my child and teach them a few more   
   things that perhaps a school couldn't teach or wouldn't have the time to   
   teach, but in return the school will teach things I am not able to.  Again,   
   I find this to be called "parenting" not HE.   
      
   >   
   > >I don't learn the history of California (for example)   
   > > and how their families came to settle there.  I do learn that Peggy is   
   > > pregnant and Johnny went to see "Rent" on Broadway and Jill's grandkids   
   > are   
   > > growing so big.   
   >   
   > And that's because you don't see what you term as 'social' conversation as   
   > having a capacity for being educational, at least not within a school   
   > context. If I were having that same conversation with my children I would   
   > include some sex education because of the pregnancy, some social   
   commentary   
   > for the Broadway musical and a discussion on how much we grow each year   
   etc   
   > for the grandkids. Do you see what I mean? As an HEr I take each   
   opportunity   
   > as it arises. As a school teacher you teach set lessons. It's all very   
   > different, but both are as valid.   
      
   But you aren't on the phone with your children during these conversations to   
   make them educational, are you?  If so, then I apologize.   
      
   >   
   > >I do agree at times they may overlap, but June seems to   
   > > want to be the one to generalize here, but she's also trying to sell a   
   > > system.  I am NOT saying it is a bad system, but there are better   
   systems   
   > > and it does take parental involvement to make ALL systems work.   
   >   
   > How am *I* trying to sell a system Kevin, when most HErs do things   
   > differently to each other but school teachers have to fit within certain   
   > boundaries and limits?   
      
   Yes, school teachers have to fit within boundaries.  That is true.  But you   
   seem to want to sugar coat HE and that's why I made the statement about   
   "selling" the system.  If it works for you, GREAT!!  I simply think that you   
   wouldn't take care of your children's major medical issues without the   
   assistance of someone qualified.  You probably wouldn't bank with a system   
   that doesn't have qualified people working in it, you wouldn't shop from the   
   butcher that hasn't been trained in how to cut meat, you wouldn't do a lot   
   of things from people that weren't qualified or trained.  Yet you don't want   
   to let trained people teach your kids.   
      
   I am not saying you aren't a good teacher, you probably are, I've never met   
   you, and probably never will.  I think it is incredible that you can afford   
   to be at home teaching them.  I'm jealous.  I'd love to be with my two kids   
   every day.  On the other hand, I also love being with other people's   
   children daily doing what I do.   
      
   I just don't want to see the education system and/or teachers bashed because   
   some systems are not up to snuff.  My advice is to get involved in your   
   schools, your PTA committee, etc.  Find out what is going on in your   
   schools, ask how you can sit in on interview panels.  Take charge of your   
   schools, we work for you, the tax payers.  We have your children, you should   
   be involved as much as you can.  If things don't change, then I highly   
   recommend looking for alternative educations (i.e. HE).  Change does take   
   time, but with constant pressure from the parents, change does take place,   
   and usually quite nicely.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)