From: no_one@nowhere.com   
      
   Is this a social discussion or an educational one? J/K.  I'm learning   
   something here!   
      
   I was just wondering... how do you separate what a parent ought to do   
   to quench a child's curiosity and the educational system? I'm not a   
   parent, and I am not a teacher so I will not pretend to have the   
   knowledge you both have.  I respect both sides here.   
      
   But if I were a parent, I'd know my kids and be a mother, a teacher, a   
   disciplinarian, and a friend. If my child is curious about Egypt, as a   
   parent I could quench that curiousity. If I don't have all the   
   answers, we could learn together. It seems parents have so much   
   responsibility in the development of a child in many ways. Teachers   
   can't replace parents, parents oversee the development of the child.   
   How far should that go? Doctors oversee the care of a child's health,   
   but then to a certain degree so do the parents.   
      
   I agree there are bad schools out there and HE would be a great idea,   
   but if one has trust in a school system because it's a good one, I'd   
   think being in a world of their peers, sort of like a mini society of   
   kids (perhaps diverse?), would be a great social experience, and   
   they'd get a good education; and it is free.   
      
      
      
      
   On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:54:40 GMT, Kevin wrote:   
      
   >> To the contrary Kevin, I think you don't understand that we're coming from   
   >> totally different angles for the same thing.   
   >   
   >I agree we both think that our children come first.   
   >   
   >> >June, I never   
   >> > ONCE implied a homeschooled child never leaves the home.  >   
   >> I didn't think I hadn't. However, with that statement you've kind of   
   >summed   
   >> it up; education isn't about exams. Education occurs everywhere if you're   
   >> Home Educating, and I do literally mean everywhere. I'm not saying that   
   >the   
   >> school system is wrong, just that the way of learning whilst Home   
   >Educating   
   >> is entirely different.   
   >   
   >I agree it is different.  Tests are set to show that a child has learned a   
   >prescribed set of curriculum.  I have to use the tests (and I don't like   
   >tests) to show that I've done my job as an educator in the public school   
   >system.  Learning never stops, that is OBVIOUS, and teaching never stops,   
   >that is just as OBVIOUS.  I don't think you understand that I agree with   
   >you.  That is just part of being a parent....you have to teach or supplement   
   >what your child needs.  I am not allowed, for example, to teach sex ed., but   
   >then again, I wouldn't want to.  I think that is for the parents to teach.   
   >I also don't want a public educator to teach my children that subject.  I'm   
   >uncomfortable with that.    Public schooling does expect parental support in   
   >many areas, such as that.   
   >   
   >> Only if you *want* to divide it in to compartments. This is what I'm   
   >saying,   
   >> what you don't seem to be picking up. For us the whole gamut of discussion   
   >> *isn't* seperate. We can be discussing things socially and it will mutate   
   >in   
   >> to an educational discussion and they might not even realise it; there are   
   >> no set hours for learning, they learn the whole time they're awake. Every   
   >> single conversation has a potential for imparting knowledge.   
   >   
   >   
   >I agree conversations all have potential, but then REALITY sets in, and you   
   >will never be able to convince me that every single one of you and your   
   >children's conversations are learning moments.  And quite honestly, they   
   >shouldn't have to be.   
   >   
   >> >I don't learn the fundamentals of long division   
   >> > by doing that, do I?> Why not? My then 8 year old started to learn about   
   >fractions after watching   
   >> a Rugrats episode that brought up some questions. Fractions can be taught   
   >> during cookery, for example. Every situation can be employed. This is a   
   >> fundamental difference between HE and school. I understand the difference,   
   >> but I'm not sure you're seeing it at the moment.   
   >   
   >I disagree.  You will never learn long division by discussing on the phone   
   >with a friend the local gossip.  I do agree that you can teach lessons off   
   >of what a child watches on tv, I do it all the time.  Does that mean my   
   >children are better educated?  Not really, it means that I have taken the   
   >time as a parent to communicate with my child and teach them a few more   
   >things that perhaps a school couldn't teach or wouldn't have the time to   
   >teach, but in return the school will teach things I am not able to.  Again,   
   >I find this to be called "parenting" not HE.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> >I don't learn the history of California (for example)   
   >> > and how their families came to settle there.  I do learn that Peggy is   
   >> > pregnant and Johnny went to see "Rent" on Broadway and Jill's grandkids   
   >> are   
   >> > growing so big.   
   >>   
   >> And that's because you don't see what you term as 'social' conversation as   
   >> having a capacity for being educational, at least not within a school   
   >> context. If I were having that same conversation with my children I would   
   >> include some sex education because of the pregnancy, some social   
   >commentary   
   >> for the Broadway musical and a discussion on how much we grow each year   
   >etc   
   >> for the grandkids. Do you see what I mean? As an HEr I take each   
   >opportunity   
   >> as it arises. As a school teacher you teach set lessons. It's all very   
   >> different, but both are as valid.   
   >   
   >But you aren't on the phone with your children during these conversations to   
   >make them educational, are you?  If so, then I apologize.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> >I do agree at times they may overlap, but June seems to   
   >> > want to be the one to generalize here, but she's also trying to sell a   
   >> > system.  I am NOT saying it is a bad system, but there are better   
   >systems   
   >> > and it does take parental involvement to make ALL systems work.   
   >>   
   >> How am *I* trying to sell a system Kevin, when most HErs do things   
   >> differently to each other but school teachers have to fit within certain   
   >> boundaries and limits?   
   >   
   >Yes, school teachers have to fit within boundaries.  That is true.  But you   
   >seem to want to sugar coat HE and that's why I made the statement about   
   >"selling" the system.  If it works for you, GREAT!!  I simply think that you   
   >wouldn't take care of your children's major medical issues without the   
   >assistance of someone qualified.  You probably wouldn't bank with a system   
   >that doesn't have qualified people working in it, you wouldn't shop from the   
   >butcher that hasn't been trained in how to cut meat, you wouldn't do a lot   
   >of things from people that weren't qualified or trained.  Yet you don't want   
   >to let trained people teach your kids.   
   >   
   >I am not saying you aren't a good teacher, you probably are, I've never met   
   >you, and probably never will.  I think it is incredible that you can afford   
   >to be at home teaching them.  I'm jealous.  I'd love to be with my two kids   
      
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