b9c00fbe   
   From: Tony.Miklos@gmail.com   
      
   On 1/29/2011 3:49 AM, kreed wrote:   
   > On Jan 29, 1:10 pm, Rob Blakeslee  wrote:   
   >> On Jan 28, 8:56 am, Rob Blakeslee  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>> On Jan 28, 7:18 am, kreed  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>> On Jan 28, 12:44 pm, Rob Blakeslee  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>> On Dec 7 2010, 9:52 pm, Rob in NYC  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>>> On Dec 7, 9:25 pm, kreed  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> On Dec 7, 8:47 pm, Rob Blakeslee  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>>>>> On Dec 6, 7:50 pm, kreed  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 7:45 am, Rob Blakeslee  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>>>>>>> I just picked aRoweJEL.  It is in great condition, but when I picked   
   >>>>>>>>>> it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play   
   >>>>>>>>>> cycle.  I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper   
   >>>>>>>>>> arm is lowered.  I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record   
   >>>>>>>>>> being completed but nothing happened.  Nothing happens when I hit   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>> cancel button.  I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam   
   >>>>>>>>>> switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad.  Any advice would   
   be   
   >>>>>>>>>> greatly appreciated.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Thanks,   
   >>>>>>>>>> Rob   
   >>   
   >>>>>>>>>   you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and   
   see   
   >>>>>>>>> if that helps   
   >>   
   >>>>>>>>> also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the   
   >>>>>>>>> mechanism.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>>> Kreed,   
   >>   
   >>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply.  I did check the fuses with a meter and they are   
   >>>>>>>> all good.  I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get   
   >>>>>>>> it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing.  I will have to find   
   >>>>>>>> the voltage source and see what's going on.  Are there any fuses   
   >>>>>>>> mounted under the chassis?   
   >>   
   >>>>>>>> Thanks again,   
   >>>>>>>> Rob   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> No, only in the power  supply - and one in the button bank (but   
   >>>>>>> wouldn't be related to this problem).   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike   
   >>>>>>> models prior to this) and it only goes one way   
   >>>>>>> The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play   
   >>>>>>> position, everything then sits totally inert until   
   >>>>>>> the record finishes playing.  At this point, when you press cancel (or   
   >>>>>>> reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw   
   >>>>>>> 3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the   
   >>>>>>> relay.)   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.   
   >>>>>>> If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would   
   >>>>>>> replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>> Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting   
   >>>>>>> to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K   
   >>>>>> res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can   
   >>>>>> cause this sort of problem.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro   
   >>>>>> switches.  This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also   
   >>>>>> the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning   
   >>>>>> one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> Basic problem areas are:   
   >>   
   >>>>>> Micro switches   
   >>>>>> Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.   
   >>>>>> The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell   
   >>>>>> up and jam the plunger.   
   >>>>>> Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?   
   >>>>>> Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record   
   >>>>>> for return.   
   >>>>>> Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with   
   >>>>>> using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would   
   >>>>>> ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.   
   >>   
   >>>>>> Rob in NYC   
   >>   
   >>>>> Rob,   
   >>   
   >>>>> How can you manually turn the transfer motor?  I've got a bent blade   
   >>>>> on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor   
   >>>>> is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but   
   >>>>> nothing else is moving.   
   >>   
   >>>>> Thanks for you help!!   
   >>   
   >>>>> Rob   
   >>   
   >>>> Either the mechanism is jammed, or the small gear (first one driven)   
   >>>> is stripped (fibre).   
   >>   
   >>> Kreed,   
   >>   
   >>> Thanks for the reply.  I'll take a closer look at the gear tonight.  I   
   >>> haven't been trying to energize the motor too much fearing that I   
   >>> would strip the gear.  If the mechanism is jammed, anything I should   
   >>> do first?   
   >>   
   >>> Rob   
   >>   
   >> Well I unbolted the transfer motor from the mechanism and everything   
   >> in the transfer drive seems to move freely.  I believe I have a frozen   
   >> motor.  Following the instructions on pg 79 of the service manual, I   
   >> can't even turn the transfer motor using an allen wrench as   
   >> described.  I also tried moving the crank by hand and it won't budge.   
   >> Can the motor be re-built or should I look to buy a used one?   
   >>   
   >> Thanks,   
   >> Rob   
   >   
   >   
   > Note - There are 2 types of motor I have seen on JAL/JEL machines in   
   > the past   
   > in One (Very rare) type, the gearbox sits horizontally, (front to back   
   > of the mechanism) and the   
   > AC motor core sits on the left rear of it.  The gearbox is totally   
   > sealed.  I dont know much about these   
   > as I have only seen a couple of them and they never failed. If it has   
   > failed, you might be lucky and find it   
   > is hardened grease inside.   
   >   
   >   
   > The second type looks different, the motor sits vertically in the mech   
   > and the gearbox   
   > is open, so you can see it working.   
   >   
   > If you look carefully, you will see that the first driven gear driven   
   > by the AC motor part is fibre - brown colour,   
   > as compared to the others that are brass coloured.  This gear will   
   > likely have teeth stripped off it, and   
   > the first gear has jammed on the remnants of the teeth.  You might   
   > have to clean away grease or dirt to   
   > see this.   
   >   
   > If this is not the case, you may have dirt or other garbage blocking   
   > teeth on the brass gears, or seized bearings   
   > if the motor has not been used for a long time.  These should be easy   
   > to fix.   
   >   
   >   
   > It can be fixed, but you have to drill out the brass sleeves (on each   
   > corner of the gearbox) to   
   > take it apart. To get the gear made in the 1990s ended up costing   
   > $79.00. You then have to re-insert   
   > what is left of the brass sleeves, and find long thin bolts that will   
   > fit through the centre of the sleeves   
      
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