XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android, alt.internet.wireless   
   From: marianjones@helpfulpeople.com   
      
   Chris wrote:   
   >> The argument made by the security researchers is valid that they tracked   
   >> "longitudinal" movements over the course of a year using Apple WPS.   
   >>    
   >   
   > Unfortunately, they give almost no details on what this year-long   
   > longitudinal study was. Unlike their month-long study which was sampled   
   > daily.   
   >   
   > They also make reference to a six-month study for mobile routers with no   
   > specific details.   
   >   
   > In their month-long they find that 15% of APs were "unstable" or   
   > disappeared, 0.06% moved more than 1km and the median distance travelled   
   > was 4km. That means 50% of APs 4km or less over the month.   
   >   
   > Am obvious thing they should have done was to remove the mobile routers   
   > from the global analysis. Makes interpretation harder.   
      
   I get it that you Apple trolls defend Apple to the death, no matter what.   
      
   But I will agree with anyone, no matter who they are, when they make   
   logically defensible statements, even if historically they are Apple   
   trolls.   
      
   There are clearly two components to their claim of tracking users.   
    1. You need the BSSIDs (which they claim Apple gives them in the millions)   
    2. You need to track the BSSID (which is trivial, and all of us proved it)   
      
   With respect to your assessment of the paper, I would agree with you!   
       
       
      
   The authors describe the month-long study clearly (10 million BSSIDs   
   sampled daily), but the year-long corpus is only mentioned in passing as a   
   massive collection of over 2 billion BSSIDs used to illustrate case   
   studies.   
      
   > Unlike you they acknowledge the APs aren't people, despite the poor   
   > grammar.   
   >   
   > "While there is not necessarily a 1-to-1 relationship   
   > between Wi-Fi routers and users, home routers typically only have several."   
      
   Again I get it that you're an Apple troll so you're desperate to make   
   absurd claims which make sense only to you, in that you claim "APs aren't   
   people" (which nobody would disagree with).   
      
   It's no longer shocking that I am forced to patiently expalin to you Apple   
   trolls what nobody who owns a synapse would dispute, which is that the   
   tracking can track your movements even as an access point is an access   
   point.   
      
   It's kind of like having to explain to you what penicillin is.   
    a. You Apple trolls would claim it's just a tablet.   
    b. How can a tablet cure anything?   
      
   You Apple trolls actually believe that saying an absurd nonsensical   
   argument such as "penicillin is just a tablet" and "AP's aren't people",   
   negates the curing (in the case of penicillin) & the tracking.   
      
   What kind of rather strange person thinks the way you Apple trolls do?   
   Only to you is an absurd argument enough to negate all the science in the   
   world.   
      
   Why don't you Apple troll spend a few minutes tracking down a security   
   professional who agrees with you instead of wasting our valuable time.   
      
   Hint: No professional on the planet agrees with you. And we know that.   
      
   > They also make reference to a six-month study for mobile routers with no   
   > specific details.   
   >   
   > In their month-long they find that 15% of APs were "unstable" or   
   > disappeared, 0.06% moved more than 1km and the median distance travelled   
   > was 4km. That means 50% of APs 4km or less over the month.   
   >   
   > Am obvious thing they should have done was to remove the mobile routers   
   > from the global analysis. Makes interpretation harder.   
      
   I will agree with anyone nho matter who they are, even if they're a known   
   Apple troll, if they make a sensibly logical statement, which you just did.   
      
   I agree with you so much that you'll note when you yourself asked me for   
   tracking examples, I refused to use as an obvious example mobile routers.   
      
   They're just to easy to track with Apple's insecure WPS database.   
   So I ignored them completely until now, when you bothered to mention them.   
      
   I agree with you that the tracking of mobile routers by BSSID is so trivial   
   as to not even need to be stated, and that it isn't the major problem here.   
      
   >> The researchers argue that Apple makes it trivial to collect millions of   
   >> router locations which they can track on a massive scale because there are   
   >> no security controls whatsoever (not even a login!) for the Apple WPS db.   
   >   
   > Yeah, that's a daft design decision.   
      
   I agree with anyone who makes a logically sensible statement so I agree   
   with you.   
      
   The problem is that is what is DIFFERENT between Apple & Google WPS dbs.   
      
   I don't know _why_ Apple made it so that anyone can do two things:   
    1. The researchers "say" they collected "billions" of AP location data   
    2. Then, we all tested our own BSSIDs where anyone can track them   
      
   Apple prioritized ubiquitous, accurate location services over locking down   
   the WPS Wi-Fi database. That decision made both large-scale research and   
   individual BSSID lookups possible, and now researchers are highlighting the   
   privacy risks.   
      
   >> It doesn't take much of an imagination to understand how dangerous that is.   
   >   
   > Likewise an overactive imagination can catastrophise. A sense of   
   > proportionality is useful, here.   
      
   I understand how desperate you are to claim Apple is above the law and that   
   Apple has enough money to break the law at will and that Apple can do no   
   wrong, no matter what. I get it Chris.   
      
   But find just one security researcher who agrees with your assessment.   
   Find just one.   
      
   Note to people who don't know about Apple trolls: They hold strong opinions   
   that nobody else on the entire planet holds. They are the only ones.   
      
    *So "find just one" is a simple test the Apple trolls always fail.*   
      
   >   
   >> If Apple honored the "_nomap" & the "hidden SSID" it wouldn't be so bad.   
   >> But Apple clearly does not honor their own rules (which I can prove).   
   >   
   > You have n=1. That's barely an anecdote.   
      
   I get it you Apple trolls are desperate to deprecate any & all facts.   
   You actually *hate* that Apple designed such a shitty WPS system.   
      
   But you can't simply say "Apple designed a shitty WPS system".   
   You feel you are forced to defend Apple's shitty WPS system.   
      
   Which you'll defend to the death, no matter what.   
   Using the first thing that comes to your mind.   
      
   Which is always absurd.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)