From: nospam@needed.invalid   
      
   On Mon, 1/5/2026 5:47 PM, Paul wrote:   
   > On Mon, 1/5/2026 2:26 PM, Steve wrote:   
   >> On 1/5/2026 8:18 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:   
   >>> Roger Mills  wrote:   
   >>>> On 04/01/2026 21:47, Steve wrote:   
   >>>>> The holidays are over and I should have time to continue the project I   
   >>>>> was working on 2 weeks ago.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I'm trying to switch to my new Samsung 870 EVO SATA 2.5 inch drive. The   
   >>>>> paper in the box said to use Samsung Magician to clone the data. I'm   
   >>>>> starting to believe that it doesn't work with a SATA drive!   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> People suggested I use a different cloning tool. I dismissed that idea   
   >>>>> because, certainly, Samsung Magician would work after I got my computer   
   >>>>> to recognize the new drive. Well I did that. It's now showing on File   
   >>>>> Explorer as drive (J:) and I have formatted it. I tested it by copying a   
   >>>>> file with several pictures inside to (J:). It went right in and the   
   >>>>> pictures opened just fine. I formatted again to empty it.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I looked at you tube videos about using Samsung Magician. They all   
   >>>>> showed a ssd that did not look like my SATA drive.  Samsung Magician   
   >>>>> seems to have 2 ways to get to "Data Migration". One way pops up a   
   >>>>> message that the drive isn't compatible. I originally feared that it was   
   >>>>> warning me that the new drive wasn't compatible with my computer. Going   
   >>>>> in the other way, it shows my C: drive as the source drive but it   
   >>>>> prompts me to connect the Samsung SSD. It doesn't see it even though it   
   >>>>> IS there and it works.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> What cloning software is going to work with my SATA SSD?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Have you installed the SATA SSD inside the computer alongside the   
   >>>> existing drive? If so, that could be the problem. I have a feeling that   
   >>>> Magician expects the SSD to be an external drive, mounted in a suitable   
   >>>> enclosure and connected by USB3. That's certainly what happened when I   
   >>>> replaced a rotating drive with an SSD in a laptop a few years ago. That   
   >>>> worked fine. That was the only option in my case because the laptop   
   >>>> couldn't accommodate more than one internal drive at a time.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Maybe worth a try?   
   >>>   
   >>>    I indeed think that an *internal* drive which is *formatted* - i.e.   
   >>> has a drive letter -, is a no-no for Samsung Magician.   
   >>>   
   >>>    IIRC, initially the SSD was not visible in Disk Management, causing   
   >>> Samsung Magician not to see it. Now the SSD *is* visible in Disk   
   >>> Management, but because it has a drive letter and is formatted, Samsung   
   >>> Magician probably considers it as a no-go area and rightfully so.   
   >>>   
   >>>    So Steve may want to remove the (J:) partition and see if Samsung   
   >>> Magician now recognizes the SSD.   
   >>>   
   >>>    OTOH, as others have also suggested, it's better to use Macrium   
   >>> Reflect (Free) to do the cloning or imaging, because for Macrium you   
   >>> don't have to guess what is doing what (and there's a lot of Macrium   
   >>> experience/expertise in these groups).   
   >>   
   >> Thanks Frank.   
   >   
   > I finally pushed the button and tested it.   
   >   
   > Samsung Magician does copy hidden partitions. Since it does not admit to   
   doing   
   > this, it's hard to say how many hidden partitions it is willing to copy.   
      
   One further point, after looking at the Process Monitor trace for the Samsung   
   Magician run on Windows 10.   
      
   I was on Windows 10, and Samsung Magician is using Storage Migration Service,   
   with executable "migrationservice.exe". This is provided by Microsoft. The code   
   moving the disk then, for Win10 only, is not written by Samsung. It calls a   
   service available from the OS. On Windows 8.1, an older version of Magician   
   must   
   use something else to do it (because Samsung wants you to use an older version   
   on that OS).   
      
   As a result, my guess is, this is roughly the equivalent of a "System Image"   
   from the Microsoft backup software (with so-called "critical partitions"   
   included and   
   copying C: is mandatory). So now we see where the insistence on "copying your   
   C: "   
   comes from. This code is not just some generic partition copying software   
   with a weird fetish for C: , it's the System Image service being abused to   
   copy the boot disk. The graphical interface then, is offering to copy   
   additional data partitions,   
   in the same way that wbadmin parameters are used. In this example, D: and F:   
   are two additional partitions the user wants.   
      
       wbAdmin start backup -backupTarget:E: -include:D:,F: -allCritical -quiet     
   # "AllCritical" is C: and hidden_friends   
      
   If we ignore the backupTarget for a moment, and imagine this program being   
   used to clone instead of imaging, the C: and hidden_friends would always   
   be copied, then the graphical interface in Magician would allow me to add D:   
   and F:   
   for copying. It's like the Samsung GUI, is driving parameters to a command   
   shaped   
   like that.   
      
   Now that we understand this part, we can make a prediction. The product will   
   not copy a multiboot Win7+Win10 disk, because only one of the OSes is   
   "critical"   
   and support for the other might easily be ignored. However, for a single   
   Windows   
   on a disk, at a guess this will (mostly) work out for you, the user. So that's   
   the "hidden partition" algo, it's the critical partitions for C: and not the   
   critical partitions necessarily for any other OS on the disk. I have a trick   
   for overcoming this on wdAdmin, but since the Samsung GUI does not expose   
   anything we can use as leverage here, I can't do that and make Samsung Magician   
   copy absolutely everything.   
      
   The Samsung Magician is not listed as working with Windows 11. And on Windows   
   11   
   there is no sign of the Migration Service (yet wbadmin.exe is still there!).   
      
   A discussion on Reddit, had the best practice advice offered "to use Robocopy"   
   rather than the MigrationService, which is surely the high comedy moment of   
   the day.   
   It will likely take us some time, to discover what defect they fear... Robocopy   
   started as a hobby project at Microsoft, and Microsoft deemed it to be   
   worthwhile enough,   
   it includes a copy in every OS and supports it. On WinXP, you had to download   
   the first release manually (XP_026?).   
      
   The rest of the trace details, I don't understand what it is doing.   
   Some would ask "why do you care?". Well, I care if the way the file system   
   is being written out to the clone is "not standard". You would not want   
   surprises   
   later, if it turned out the FS had been containerized. While I see mention   
   of "WOF" (Windows Overlay Filesystem) in the trace, I don't understand what   
   useful transformation that would achieve while cloning. Only the bad idea,   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)