XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian.baptist
From: shell-stamford@cox.net
"Mike Painter" wrote in message
news:Hxonk.9865$L_.1512@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Chuck Stamford wrote:
> >>>>
>>>>> So, has everything been accomplished?
>>>>> Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth
>>>>> disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen,
>>>>> will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is
>>>>> accomplished.
>>>>
>>>> Not in the sense of Matthew 5:18, no.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If not you should be rooting for the Taliban who follow OT law
>>>>> with stoning for minor infractions.
>>>>
>>>> Where did you get the idea the Taliban follows the OT?? The Taliban
>>>> follows a Scripture that says love your neighbor and kill the
>>>> infidel wherever you find them. The Old Testament reminds the
>>>> Jews they were strangers once, and they should thus welcome the
>>>> stranger who comes in peace, regardless of the god he worships.
>>>
>>> You mentioned the commandments and most of the commandments have
>>> punishments that range from paying money through being made a slave
>>> to death. Death being the preferred chioce in most matters.
>>
>> And?
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If yes then where specifically does this Christ tell you what laws
>>>>> should and shound not be obeyed.
>>>>
>>>> Christ specifically gives us two laws to obey:
>>>>
>>>> Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your
>>>> heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the
>>>> first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: 'You
>>>> shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments
>>>> hang all the Law and the Prophets."
>>>
>>> Sorry when you said "a command of God as understood and interpreted
>>> by His Son, Jesus Christ. " I thought you meant it.
>>
>> I did.
>>
>>> The OT is filled with comnmands of your god.
>>> Christ said those laws are still in effect.
>>> Since you probably apply some of them and ignore othres, even though
>>> in the past they were not ignored, where does your christ tell you
>>> which ones to pick and wher does he interpret them?
>>
>> In the above that I just gave you. He also said, through the inspired
>> authors of Scripture, the laws of God would, by His ministry of
>> sacrifice for sin, be written on the hearts of those who love God;
>> that they would be obeyed in Spirit instead of letter.
>
> By that argument there is no interpretation needed.
That doesn't follow. Interpretation and inference are synonymous. I
"interpret" "God is love" (1 John 4:16) to mean what I infer that
proposition is describing. There is no comprehension of language without
inference/interpretation on the part of the hearer or reader. Therefore, no
matter what I've said, it can't follow from it that there is no
interpretation needed. At the very least I need MY
interpretation/inference.
> How do you determine based on this statement who is right and who is
> wrong?
That depends on what you're referring to. If you mean how do we determine
who is correctly understanding any biblical passage you care to pick at
random, and who isn't, I'm not sure we can, or that this is necessary. If
you mean how do we determine who is correctly understanding a well
represented biblical principle of faith or doctrine (eg. love your enemies,
repentence from sin is necessary for forgiveness, etc.), then that is fairly
self-evident: by the fact it's a well represented biblical
principle/doctrine.
> One groups says this menas one thing, another group says it means
> something else.
> Who is right?
>>
>>>
>>> He also said
>>> Matthew 10:34
>>> Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
>>> peace, but a sword.
>>
>> The sword there is seen by many, including me, as this one:
>>
> But you just finished saying that it was written in your heart, if you are
> a christian.
No I didn't, and you're beginning to mix things that are distinctly
different and treat them all the same. For example, now you're treating my
understanding of Hebrews 4:11-12 as "law", and that's not what I've said at
all.
> I guess the others are not True Christians, that's the way it works for
> most of the 30,000 sects or so who don't agree with you.
You should confine yourself to stating what you know is true. I don't
personally know how many "sects" of Christians there are worldwide, and
neither do you. Just because you read a number on a website or two online,
doesn't make it a fact. We can all look up the word "sect" in the
dictonary, but that won't tell you, or anyone else whether or not Calvary
Chapel Toronto and Mission Hills Community Church are two different "sects".
To be able to do that you'd need to know quite a bit about each of them. Do
you really think anyone has made the type of study necessary to say with any
real confidence there are 30,000 Christian sects? If you do, I'd like you
to tell me who s/he is, because that is one remarkable human being.
In any case, however many there are (and I'll grant you there are TONS of
them), it is not true that most of them don't see the others as "true
Christians". Granted, there are many who do; but "most", uh-uh.
>> Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall
>> according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God
>> is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword,
>> piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and
>> marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
>> Heb 4:11-12
>
> So selling your clothes to BUY a sword really does not mean what it says.
> You appear to be one of the people who claim you must be saved to
> understand.
Actually, I'm not. It helps, there's no doubt, but I don't think it's
absolutely necessary, at least not to gain a legitimate, if relatively
surface understanding of the truths taught. The real determining factor, I
think, in whether someone can understand the authorial intent of a book, or
a series of passages, or even a single passage, is one's honest desire to
understand what the author is actually saying. That too often, it seems,
is too much effort for a skeptical amatuer, who is generally more interested
in putting the whole thing to bed as quickly as possible, than she is in
gaining any real understanding of the text.
>>
>> In Scripture, it is not always the case that the sword is used to
>> symbolize strife, fighting, and war. It is also used as it is here,
>> a symbol of what judges between truth and falsehood; i.e, "the word
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
|
