a713b446
XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian.baptist
From: shell-stamford@cox.net
wrote in message
news:de093355-0589-41a1-8fad-6bed5bedd4b0@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 11, 6:35 am, "Chuck Stamford" wrote:
>> wrote in message
>>
>> news:19492b56-bb66-4ea5-9ea1-320a553e10d4@a2g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 10, 6:23 pm, "Preach The Word"
>> > wrote:
>> >> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:b02ed179-6c8c-4481-88c3-5e0a3fa0f61a@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Aug 10, 5:53 pm, "A Watcher" wrote:
>> >> >> "Chuck Stamford" wrote in message
>>
>> >> >>news:cHmnk.15680$LF2.12142@newsfe09.iad...
>>
>> >> >> > "A Watcher" wrote in message
>> >> >> >news:_zbnk.148082$Lw1.14166@newsfe29.ams2...
>>
>> >> >> >> "Chuck Stamford" wrote in message
>> >> >> >>news:GL7nk.15702$1N1.15195@newsfe07.iad...
>>
>> >> >> >>> "Mike Painter" wrote in message
>> >> >> >>>news:7h7nk.16194$cW3.6902@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> >> >> >>>> Chuck Stamford wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>>>>> You mean you do not find it disturbing and quite
>> >> >> >>>>>> inappropriate
>> >> >> >>>>>> for
>> >> >> >>>>>> Christ's brethren to fight and kill each other?
>>
>> >> >> >>>>> Christ's "brethern" were enjoined by their God and Lord to
>> >> >> >>>>> obey
>> >> >> >>>>> the
>> >> >> >>>>> legitimate authorities over them, as all authority comes
>> >> >> >>>>> ultimately
>> >> >> >>>>> from Him. The fact men exercise this God given authority
>> >> >> >>>>> over
>> >> >> >>>>> one
>> >> >> >>>>> another practically guarantees there will be conflicts. Is
>> >> >> >>>>> there
>> >> >> >>>>> something in any of this you find contradictory?
>>
>> >> >> >>>> Who decides which authority is right. That argument was used
>> >> >> >>>> by
>> >> >> >>>> kings
>> >> >> >>>> and emporers for thousands of years with great success.
>> >> >> >>>> If their authority comes from the same god(s) why is there no
>> >> >> >>>> piece
>> >> >> >>>> and
>> >> >> >>>> why did kings loose power?
>>
>> >> >> >>>> Mark Twain's War Prayer sums it up nicely.
>>
>> >> >> >>> Not familiar with much of Mark Twain's body of work beyond Tom
>> >> >> >>> Sawyer.
>> >> >> >>> I liked that story as a kid. It was nice to see that some
>> >> >> >>> kids,
>> >> >> >>> at
>> >> >> >>> least, got to have some fun.
>>
>> >> >> >>> But I digress. As to you question:
>>
>> >> >> >>> "Who decides which authority is right."
>>
>> >> >> >>> God does. All I need to know, as a disciple of Jesus Christ,
>> >> >> >>> is
>> >> >> >>> that
>> >> >> >>> the authority I'm following isn't an obvious enemy of the
>> >> >> >>> Gospel,
>> >> >> >>> or
>> >> >> >>> isn't requiring me to do something that directly contradicts a
>> >> >> >>> command
>> >> >> >>> of God as understood and interpreted by His Son, Jesus Christ.
>>
>> >> >> >> You mean like these direct commands......"43 Ye have heard that
>> >> >> >> it
>> >> >> >> hath
>> >> >> >> been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
>> >> >> >> 44
>> >> >> >> But
>> >> >> >> I
>> >> >> >> say unto you, LOVE your ENEMIES, bless them that curse you, do
>> >> >> >> good
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use
>> >> >> >> you,
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> persecute you;" Matt 5:43-44 (KJV)
>>
>> >> >> >> "21 ``You have heard that the ancients were told, `YOU SHALL NOT
>> >> >> >> COMMIT
>> >> >> >> MURDER' and `Whoever, commits murder shall be liable to the
>> >> >> >> court.'
>> >> >> >> 22
>> >> >> >> ``But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother
>> >> >> >> shall
>> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> guilty before the court;" Matt 5:21-22 (NASB)
>>
>> >> >> >> Which would certainly rule out killing any of them.
>>
>> >> >> > Are you suggesting the the proposition, "It's impossible to kill
>> >> >> > someone
>> >> >> > without being angry with them" is true?
>>
>> >> >> >> "Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
>> >> >> >> 18
>> >> >> >> And
>> >> >> >> Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none
>> >> >> >> good
>> >> >> >> but
>> >> >> >> one, that is, God. 19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not
>> >> >> >> commit
>> >> >> >> adultery, Do NOT KILL, Do not steal...." Mark 10:17-19 (KJV)
>> >> >> >> See above.
>>
>> >> >> >> "38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and
>> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> tooth
>> >> >> >> for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but
>> >> >> >> whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the
>> >> >> >> other
>> >> >> >> also." Matt 5:38-39 (KJV)
>>
>> >> >> >> This is the commanded passive response to any form of attack on
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> person who is following Christ.
>> >> >> >> Christ does not say "Once he has smitten you on one cheek,
>> >> >> >> immediately
>> >> >> >> strike your adversary back on his" He says to offer the other
>> >> >> >> side
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> your face and allow him to hit the other.
>>
>> >> >> >> Is that not correct Chuck?
>>
>> >> >> > It most certainly is. And?
>>
>> >> >> Is it not true Christ's brethren were commanded to love each other,
>> >> >> even
>> >> >> their enemies and do good to those who might despitefully use them?
>>
>> >> > I would have thought so, too.
>>
>> >> > Luke 12:51ff was given recently as the way His people should expect
>> >> > to
>> >> > carry themselves in public.
>>
>> >> > " ... Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I
>> >> > tell
>> >> > you, but rather division. For from now on in one house there will be
>> >> > five divided, three against two and two against three. They will
>> >> > be
>> >> > divided, father against son and son against father, mother against
>> >> > daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her
>> >> > daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." (Luk
>> >> > 12:51-53).
>>
>> >> > I begged to differ.
>>
>> >> About what?
>>
>> > Posture
>>
>> > I didn't think His discourse was ment to be read that way.
>>
>> Read in what way, Roy. Be specific.
>
> Is the writer wanting to convey that we ought to be divide family
> members as described as normative engagement with the world? Is our
> Lord wanting to say we do so likewise?
>
> The appeal in Luke 12:13-14 serves as a backdrop to v.51ff. "Someone
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