XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian.baptist,   
   alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   From: vernono@there.com   
      
   "Chuck Stamford"  wrote in message   
   news:jbtqk.37289$QX3.22081@newsfe02.iad...   
   >   
   > "vernono"  wrote in message   
   > news:uzqqk.2995$xv4.2571@fe111.usenetserver.com...   
   >>   
   >> " ::: good news runner :::"  wrote in message   
   >> news:6guhdpFhonpiU1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>> In news:wsnqk.1235$Tb5.958@fe93.usenetserver.com,   
   >>> vernono  typed:   
   >>>> And the last thing Jesus said to the apostles in concert was to go   
   >>>> get a sword, also if a group did not listen, give them the middle   
   >>>> finger salute (shake your sandal).   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Too bad people can't read the entire bible and listen to what Jesus,   
   >>>> The Christ, said to do after He left.   
   >>>   
   >>> You are talking about swords in a metaphorical way, but Jesus meant the   
   >>> real swords that can hurt people's body. This here, however, is about   
   >>> Spiritual things - opinions, thoughts, ideas... and it is about TRUTH in   
   >>> the first instance.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> No, I am talking about real swords and a pouch of money.   
   >>   
   >> Of course that doesn't chang live by the sword and die by the sword.   
   >>   
   >> And Jesus had compassion on several centurians.  These had probably   
   >> killed tens or hundreds of people.   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> To say it with Jesus...   
   >>>   
   >>> Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of   
   >>> the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to   
   >>> observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with   
   >>> you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> To say it with Paul...   
   >>>   
   >>> "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who   
   >>> shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;   
   >>> Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke,   
   >>> exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when   
   >>> they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall   
   >>> they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall   
   >>> turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.   
   >>> But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an   
   >>> evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV)   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the   
   >>> wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but   
   >>> against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the   
   >>> darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.   
   >>> Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to   
   >>> withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand   
   >>> therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the   
   >>> breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of   
   >>> the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye   
   >>> shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the   
   >>> helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of   
   >>> God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and   
   >>> watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all   
   >>> saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open   
   >>> my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am   
   >>> an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to   
   >>> speak. (Ephesians 6:11-20 KJV)   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> In addition, I cannot see how your words might fit to Chuck's post...   
   >>> and whom you migth see getting a real sword...   
   >   
   > He said for his disciples to sell their cloaks and buy real swords, and   
   > you are right that He was talking about real swords.  However, it is   
   > easily misunderstood when it is taken out of context.  Jesus is there   
   > contrasting the protection He provided for them while with them on earth,   
   > with the fact that after His death, resurrection, and ascension into   
   > heaven, they would not continue to enjoy that same level of preservation.   
   >   
   > Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to   
   > You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me,   
   > that they may be one as We are. 12 "While I was with them in the world, I   
   > kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of   
   > them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be   
   > fulfilled. 13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the   
   > world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. John 17:11-13   
   >   
   > Compare with:   
   >   
   > Then Jesus said to them, "All of you will be made to stumble because of Me   
   > this night, for it is written: 'I will strike the Shepherd, And the sheep   
   > of the flock will be scattered.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will   
   > go before you to Galilee." 33 Peter answered and said to Him, "Even if all   
   > are made to stumble because of You, I will never be made to stumble." 34   
   > Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you that this night, before the   
   > rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." 35 Peter said to Him, "Even   
   > if I have to die with You, I will not deny You!" And so said all the   
   > disciples. Matt 26:31-35   
   >   
   > So the moneybag He told them to take this time is real, as is the sword,   
   > but the TEACHING is concerning the change in the protection level Jesus'   
   > disciples are about to experience that makes moneybags and swords part of   
   > living out their lives as disciples of His.   
   >   
   > I believe Jesus is teaching that the Christian cannot be completely   
   > oblivious to money or to occasionally being called upon to defend what God   
   > has entrusted into his charge, but that this is not to be over done or   
   > used as an excuse for not trusting in God.  Just because it is true the   
   > watchman watches in vain if the Lord is not in it, so to it is true that   
   > the Lord being in it doesn't allow the watchman to go home and climb into   
   > bed.  He must still "watch", for that is what the Lord has called him to   
   > do.   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> But our sword is God's Word...   
   >>>   
   >>> Amen?   
   >>>   
   >>> --   
   >>   
   >> Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.   
   >> Jesus didn't mince words.   
   >>   
   >   
   >   
      
   I agree with you 100%.  I have seen too many ignore His teaching about   
   defense and scoff at those who protect us with their lives.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)