XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.religion.christian.baptist,   
   alt.religion.christian.biblestudy   
   From: shell-stamford@cox.net   
      
   "vernono"  wrote in message   
   news:X8Gqk.3052$xv4.464@fe111.usenetserver.com...   
   >   
   > "Chuck Stamford"  wrote in message   
   > news:jbtqk.37289$QX3.22081@newsfe02.iad...   
   >>   
   >> "vernono"  wrote in message   
   >> news:uzqqk.2995$xv4.2571@fe111.usenetserver.com...   
   >>>   
   >>> " ::: good news runner :::"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:6guhdpFhonpiU1@mid.individual.net...   
   >>>> In news:wsnqk.1235$Tb5.958@fe93.usenetserver.com,   
   >>>> vernono  typed:   
   >>>>> And the last thing Jesus said to the apostles in concert was to go   
   >>>>> get a sword, also if a group did not listen, give them the middle   
   >>>>> finger salute (shake your sandal).   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Too bad people can't read the entire bible and listen to what Jesus,   
   >>>>> The Christ, said to do after He left.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You are talking about swords in a metaphorical way, but Jesus meant the   
   >>>> real swords that can hurt people's body. This here, however, is about   
   >>>> Spiritual things - opinions, thoughts, ideas... and it is about TRUTH   
   >>>> in the first instance.   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> No, I am talking about real swords and a pouch of money.   
   >>>   
   >>> Of course that doesn't chang live by the sword and die by the sword.   
   >>>   
   >>> And Jesus had compassion on several centurians.  These had probably   
   >>> killed tens or hundreds of people.   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> To say it with Jesus...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of   
   >>>> the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to   
   >>>> observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with   
   >>>> you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> To say it with Paul...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who   
   >>>> shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;   
   >>>> Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke,   
   >>>> exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when   
   >>>> they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall   
   >>>> they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall   
   >>>> turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.   
   >>>> But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an   
   >>>> evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV)   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against   
   >>>> the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but   
   >>>> against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the   
   >>>> darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.   
   >>>> Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to   
   >>>> withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand   
   >>>> therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the   
   >>>> breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation   
   >>>> of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith,   
   >>>> wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.   
   >>>> And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is   
   >>>> the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the   
   >>>> Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication   
   >>>> for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I   
   >>>> may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For   
   >>>> which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as   
   >>>> I ought to speak. (Ephesians 6:11-20 KJV)   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> In addition, I cannot see how your words might fit to Chuck's post...   
   >>>> and whom you migth see getting a real sword...   
   >>   
   >> He said for his disciples to sell their cloaks and buy real swords, and   
   >> you are right that He was talking about real swords.  However, it is   
   >> easily misunderstood when it is taken out of context.  Jesus is there   
   >> contrasting the protection He provided for them while with them on earth,   
   >> with the fact that after His death, resurrection, and ascension into   
   >> heaven, they would not continue to enjoy that same level of preservation.   
   >>   
   >> Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come   
   >> to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me,   
   >> that they may be one as We are. 12 "While I was with them in the world, I   
   >> kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of   
   >> them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be   
   >> fulfilled. 13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the   
   >> world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. John 17:11-13   
   >>   
   >> Compare with:   
   >>   
   >> Then Jesus said to them, "All of you will be made to stumble because of   
   >> Me this night, for it is written: 'I will strike the Shepherd, And the   
   >> sheep of the flock will be scattered.' 32 "But after I have been raised,   
   >> I will go before you to Galilee." 33 Peter answered and said to Him,   
   >> "Even if all are made to stumble because of You, I will never be made to   
   >> stumble." 34 Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you that this night,   
   >> before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." 35 Peter said to   
   >> Him, "Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You!" And so said   
   >> all the disciples. Matt 26:31-35   
   >>   
   >> So the moneybag He told them to take this time is real, as is the sword,   
   >> but the TEACHING is concerning the change in the protection level Jesus'   
   >> disciples are about to experience that makes moneybags and swords part of   
   >> living out their lives as disciples of His.   
   >>   
   >> I believe Jesus is teaching that the Christian cannot be completely   
   >> oblivious to money or to occasionally being called upon to defend what   
   >> God has entrusted into his charge, but that this is not to be over done   
   >> or used as an excuse for not trusting in God.  Just because it is true   
   >> the watchman watches in vain if the Lord is not in it, so to it is true   
   >> that the Lord being in it doesn't allow the watchman to go home and climb   
   >> into bed.  He must still "watch", for that is what the Lord has called   
   >> him to do.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> But our sword is God's Word...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Amen?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> --   
   >>>   
   >>> Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.   
   >>> Jesus didn't mince words.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)