XPost: uk.politics.misc, soc.culture.palestine, soc.culture.egyptian
XPost: soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.lebanon
From: Arminius@hotmale.com
"hummingbird" wrote in message
news:mh5dc2h8c1rvdjalrbjihe1v8efsca61fn@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:42:10 +0200 'Arminius'
> posted this onto uk.politics.misc:
>
>>"hummingbird" wrote in message
>>news:ps2dc2p606h3hghoshk6o2jth5u6192t6c@4ax.com...
>>> That reason is:?
>>
>>I usually support the underdogs. Tiny Israel surrounded by vast sea of
>>hostile neighbours.
>
> How did that come about?
I'd wager them being Jews has a lot to do with it. Jews were being attacked
by Arabs in the region before Israel came into being. Of course their
actions have also contributed.
>>Plus Israel represents the only advanced country in the shitty Middle
>>East.
>
> It's not the only one but anyway, why does that concern you?
Which are the others? It concerns me because you asked me to explain why I
supported Israel. I support modern civilization and advancement.
> Israel is no friend of Britain; it uses us for its own purposes.
No more I daresay than many other countries. Isn't foreign affairs mainly
about self-interest?
>
>>You know as well as I do the advances it has presided over in its short
>>lifetime. Plus the many Nobel Prize winners that have been Israelis or
>>Jews.
>>Israel is an asset for the civilized world.
>
> In what way?
> Assets usually have value to us, Israel has none, only costs.
What about all the technology Israel has contributed to. Then there are the
Jewish Nobel Prize winners, whose discoveries etc. have contributed to
humanity as a whole. I'm interested in the big picture.
See the list pasted below.
>
>>In contrast, the surrounding
>>Arab world hardly produces a single internationally marketable product
>>(even
>>the oil is located, extracted and refined with Western tech). Arab
>>countries
>>are typically poor, backward and rife with corruption and civil and
>>sectatrian strife. Without their oil, they would produce virtually nothing
>>that anyone else wants or values.
>
> You seem to be forgetting that major M/E oil countries with despots
> have been supported by the US for decades. In the case of Iran,
> the US installed the Shah in 1953 which directly led to the 1979
> revolution.The list of western intervention and cock-ups is very long.
That doesn't prove they wouldn't have been equally unproductive and backward
had they had different regimes. In fact, it's probably more likely they
would have become more conservative and theocratic.
>
> The mess in the M/E is largely of *our* making - even creating the
> state of Israel is our mess. We cannot simply wash recent history away
> and try to start each day with a clean slate, which usually amounts to
> blaming the indigenous people for the troubles when in fact they are
> the victims.
I'd say the mess in the ME comes equally as much from the Bible, Koran and
Jewish scriptures.
>
> That would be like blaming the RCs in Ireland for the troubles there
> when everybody knows its roots are in British colonialism.
Jews had always lived in the ME and Palestine region. But the British had
not always lived in Ireland.
>>Israel is the only democracy in the region - although Iraq is now claiming
>>to be. It's also not a theocracy and stuck in the culture and politics of
>>the 7th century.
>
> Israel also has enough of its own religious nutters.
True, but they don't run the country.
>
>>Israel is a net asset for the world.
>
> So you have said but I bet you can't expalin why.
See below for some examples. Plus have a look at the list of Nobel
Laureates.
>
>>The Arab world is a net liability, as
>>we see around us every day. Therefore I root for the light of civilization
>>rather than the culture of the Dark Ages.
>
> That's a lot of your personal opinion.
Well, you've given yours here too. Since the Arab world as a whole generates
very little wealth outside of oil and it produces a great many problems -
including terrorists - and its states are typically undemocratic or
theocracies living in the 7th century, some of whom have the aim of
exporting this ideology worldwide, it's hard to regard it as much of an
asset at the present. Rather than try to help themselves, most Arab
countries seem to prefer to languish in poverty, illiteracy, strife, lack of
democracy and civil rights and backwardness, while blaming countries like
the US and Israel. Victims who adopt victim mentality remain victims.
**
Israel, the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the
world's population, can make claim to the following:
Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East. The
per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.
Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate
neighbors combined.
Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.
Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation
by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people - as well as one of the
highest percapita rates of patents filed.
In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of
startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the
largest number of startup companies than any other country in the
world, except the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).
Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind
the US.
Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in
the world.
Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship - and the highest
rate among women and among people over 55 - in the world.
Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing
nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious
freedom, and economic opportunity.
An Israeli ornithologist is utilizing barn owls to rid large cities of
rodent problems.
An Israeli company has developed a device that helps nurses locate
those hard-to-find veins.
Israeli actress Hanna Laslo took home the "Best Actress" award at the
2005 Cannes Film Festival this year for her performance in Amos Gitai's
"Free Zone."
An Israeli system to help dyslexic readers is being used throughout the
US and Europe.
Voice over internet protocol (VoIP) technology was pioneered in Israel.
The Israeli women's national flag football team won the largest and
most important open football tournament in Europe in 2005.
An Israeli FDA-approved device - the VelaSmooth - reduces the
appearance of cellulite.
Israeli laser technology is powering the latest hair removal devices on
the American market.
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