From: SAMCHASEBLACK@YAHOO.COM   
      
   Black people don't need white fools hiding arguments against abortion.   
   You want rich white doctors to have social excuses for killing black   
   babies.   
    Babies who will grow up hating rich white folk.   
      
    For you Alan I will send Robert's ideas to Pro-Life groups. I'll do it   
   just because you pissed me off. I get even.   
      
      
    Let me put everything back.   
      
      
   > In article <3FA131E9.4A87@YAHOO.COM>, CHESSRL2002@YAHOO.COM wrote:   
   >   
   > > Lets make this topic more simple.   
   > >   
   > > - Is a fetus a life form capable of becoming human? Yes or No?   
   >   
   > Yes.   
   >   
   > > Who cares   
   > > if it is only a few months away? The process is Alive and started.   
   >   
   > Many processes get started in Nature that do not reach fruition for   
   > various reasons.  So what?  Nor is "alive" something sacred in itself,   
   > as the vast amount of natural death that afflicts the planet at all   
   > levels of biology clearly demonstrates; death is in fact the "process"   
   > that *begins* with conception and ends whenever it is that the body dies.   
      
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      You're amazing. So what? Being alive is scared to me, to you its not.   
   Its a value judgement. To a Nazi a Jew's life might be worthless, but   
   not to his Jewish victims. To a KKK member the lives of blacks might be   
   worthless, but not to his black victims. I like your reasoning though,   
   since nature has a lot of killing in it, it gives you the right to add   
   babies to it. Why don't we just start killing all the people who trouble   
   society? Of course we'll have to find a method to define those people.   
      
   But your insane logic   There is death in nature, therefore life isn't   
   sacred, this is crap reasoning backed by a lack of feelings for others.   
      
   What is your political agenda Crowfoot?   
      
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   >   
   > > -Every woman has a right over everything what happens in her body? Yes   
   > > or no? Swallow a diamond or drugs and it is her body property? Tell that   
   > > to the law.   
   >   
   > There were once laws that required Blacks and Whites in the American   
   > South to drink from different fountains, among many other loathesome   
   > "legal" expressions of prejudice and stupidity.  The law is no better   
   > than the thinking that goes into it.  Dumb laws create dumb, painful,   
   > and destructive situations.  Honor the law where it makes sense, but   
   > where the law is stupid people go round it when you must.  Intelligent   
   > people are smarter than a dumb law and can rightly refuse to be hobbled   
   > by it.   
      
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    You're right about the above ideas. But include, smart people can also   
   avoiding killing babies not yet out of the womb, because a dumb law   
   insists they're not actually alive or human until they leave the womb.   
      
   As though, when babies pass out of the womb, they stop and pick up their   
   'Gee we're now fully alive and human permits'   
      
   I find it amazing you have such feelings for oppressed groups you can   
   identitfy with, but with unborn children ready for life, you feel   
   killing them is natural.   
      
   Maybe I'll enjoy John Wayne movies more now?!   
      
      
      
      
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   >   
   > > -Is a fetus an extension of the mother or another life inhabiting her   
   > > body? Are the genes the same? Is the life blueprint the same? Or are   
   > > they of different people?   
   >   
   > The mom is a person, grown and conscious and full of the vast investment   
   > of love and resources that family and society have already committed to   
   > her over the years it has taken her to reach physical maturity (at   
   > least, one hopes they've been vast).  The fetus is a potential person   
   > incorporating some of her genes and some of the father's.  If the fetus   
   > is born alive, it is a person.  Otherwise, it's just a potentiality,   
   > billions of which are casually tossed away every moment in and by Nature   
   > in every species of every living thing.   
      
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   A fetus has different DNA from the mother or father. Just as any child   
   is different from its mother or father. The fact that the baby lives in   
   the mother for nine months means nothing.   
      
   'Potential person' - what is this? What kind of simple minded definition   
   is this. I'm laughing here. Potential person might be a fetus not yet   
   created. When a guy decides to put on his protection before he has sex   
   with a woman. If she might have a baby that is, without his protection.   
      
   But a fetus already alive, developing more each day towards becoming a   
   grown adult, is potential realized. Once the chemistry of life begins,   
   the life begins. Any word game of defining when anything becomes human,   
   is just that, a word game.   
      
   Your value judgement, nature kills, therefore you kill babies, is   
   exactly how Hitler felt about killing. He also saw killing\dying was   
   part of nature. So killing Jews or Indians for that matter[latter, if he   
   had won, you don't exactly fit that blonde, blue eyed model].   
      
      
   There are many whites who believe that too much money and crime is   
   committed by dark peoples among them. That what they could be, that   
   their life style and nations would be better off, if they just changed   
   the laws and got rid of these people.  It almost never said in public,   
   but in private, its common. So since nature kills, should society use   
   nature as its guide? You think? Or do you think that maybe compassion is   
   another side of nature which naturally comes with higher intellgience.   
   Like dolphins having more kind feelings than ants? Just a thought.   
      
      
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   > > -A fetus can smile months before its born. What does that tell you?   
   >   
   > Nothing.  A fetus twitches and grimaces in utero, as do the fetuses of   
   > other large mammals.  A dead body also can twitch, grimace, and even   
   > emit sounds, but it's still not a live person.  You can only make   
   > this an argument by denying the complexity of physicality, or by   
   > believing the films deliberately faked up by anti-abortion fanatics to   
   > convince you that a fetus has full human consciousness rather than a   
   > functiongn autonomic nervous system.   
      
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    Dead bodies don't smile. You better catch up on the latest findings.   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)