XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins   
   From: KimbaWLionATaolDOTcom@127.0.0.1   
      
   john_SPAM@wilkins.id.au (John Wilkins) wrote:   
      
   >I knew this would get a rise, but I am satisfied with Sue Blackmore's   
   >work on NDEs.   
      
   From what I know of Blackmore's writing, she began with her own   
   drug-induced experience, which lends the very real possibility of   
   hallucination or perhaps a combination of OOBE and drug-induced   
   hallucinations. I am reminded very much of Karl Jansen's original   
   conclusions about ketamine and the NDE. To me, both sound like they're   
   confusing experiences that are somewhat similar to an NDE with the NDE   
   itself. It's worth noting that Jansen recanted his opposition to spiritual   
   explanations of NDEs (Journal of Near-Death Studies, vol 16, Fall, 1997).   
      
   Blackmore's conclusions seem to depend on some very poor hypotheses and   
   logic, such as the supposition that her experience is identical to all   
   others' NDEs, the idea that no NDErs can distinguish between what's real   
   and what isn't, and that people's minds create these experiences to shore   
   up their beliefs (when a full study of NDE reports does not support this   
   idea).   
      
   She also seeks to discount the notion that the life-changing aspect of a   
   true NDE points to its reality by saying that any brush with death will   
   have the same effect. However, research by Dr. Bruce Greyson contradicts   
   her stance.   
      
   Blackmore makes a truly astounding statement in "Dying to Live":   
   "It is my contention that this "real thing" -- NDEs, mystical experiences   
   and indeed everything encountered on the spiritual path -- are products of   
   a brain and the universe of which it is a part. For there is nothing   
   else." Taking her intended point into consideration, that there is nothing   
   else other than the physical world, it is a statement of utmost arrogance   
   and stupidity for she assumes she knows all there is and ignores the   
   logical impossibility that lack of evidence proves that something does not   
   exist. Ironically, the kicker "for there is nothing else" brings to mind   
   the "universal oneness" often reported by NDErs and other experiencers of   
   spiritual phenomena--if all is one, indeed there is nothing else.   
      
   I find it interesting that on Blackmore's own web site, she includes an   
   article by Ed Shermer, who says, "In the end, it is probably a matter of   
   personal preference whether to interpret the NDE as a glimpse of the life   
   beyond or the product of the dying brain." Certainly the personal   
   preferences of those I've seen promote the "dying brain" hypothesis have   
   been painfully obvious to me. Of those I've encountered who have had an   
   NDE, their personal preference tends toward desiring a greater   
   understanding of the phenomenon.   
      
   My own interest in the NDE comes from great similarities between many NDE   
   reports and my own "paranormal" (I hate that word) experiences.   
      
      
   --   
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)