XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins
From: mdotcoffeyatstarpowerdotnet@hunter.news.rcn.net
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:08:57 +0000 (UTC), Matt Silberstein
wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:48:29 +0000 (UTC), stevefct
>wrote:
>
>>Matt Silberstein wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:59:19 +0000 (UTC), farchy@u.washington.edu
>>> (Floyd) wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> >Kurt Gödel was born in 1906. By the 1970s, he was in his late 60s or
>>> >early 70s. The average life expectancy for someone born in the US in
>>> >the early years of the 20th century was a few decades less than that,
>>> >and Gödel was born in eastern Europe (then Brünn, Austria-Hungary, now
>>> >Brno, Czech Republic) where life expectency was even shorter. Thus he
>>> >was quite elderly by the time Rucker met him.
>>>
>>> Gödel also starved himself to death, it was a long slow processes.
>>> Anyone who had met him in those last years would have expected to hear
>>> of his death.
>>>
>>> >Dreaming that an
>>> >elderly respected colleague passed away is not all that surprising.
>>> >Did Dr. Rucker report dreaming about Gödel any other times? I ask
>>> >because it is quite easy to speculate that this is an example of
>>> >"counting the hits and forgetting the misses", which is a quite common
>>> >phenomenon in psychology (people like John Edward rely on this
>>> >phenomenon for their stage shows).
>>> >
>>> >It also seems curious that you take the account of a young PhD who had
>>> >met Gödel once or twice seriously, but neglect any mention of the
>>> >experiences of others who were closer to Gödel during life.
>>>
>>> People who knew Gödel well at that time would have known that he
>>> suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. Not a man to take life advice
>>> from even if he appeared in a dream.
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Silberstein
>>>
>>> Do in order to understand.
>>
>>
>>
>>Duh, do you think I believe Godel was giving Rudy life advice?
>>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
>>oh NOOOOOOO!!!
>>
>>
>>I think Godel was trying to tell Rudy a little about the layers of
>>reality. Starting off with the first layer, chess pieces, you know, the
>>people we know in life.
>
>So you think that a paranoid schizophrenic, one who starved himself to
>death, is a good teach about the layers of reality?
>
>>You figure out the rest. I did.
>>
>>
>>As to Godel being a 'paranoid schizophrenia' ? Hmm, was he really?
>
>He decided that people were poisoning his food so he stopped eating
>and so died.
>
>> Just
>>because he is wary of most people?
>
>No, because he thought they were trying to kill him. You really ought
>to learn something first, then correct.
>
>> I know the stories about being
>>poisoned. So we have to conclude because of his condition, if truely
>>accessed, he was a unproductive person, someone wrong about his ideas?
>
>For many years he was not productive and his ideas were not rational.
>
>>Someone who ran from his buddies like Rudy and Einstein? Come on, get
>>real. What should we think of Einstein who used to take long walks with
>>Rudy? Two peas in a pot. Alike?
>
>That was before the full blown paranoia set in.
>
>>Be careful about politically correct labeling. Take profiling. Is it
>>always wrong or averse to natural thinking?
>>
>Huh?
>
>>If I profile a young Arab on a jet as someone more likey More likely to
>>blow himself up on a jet than some 80 year old Swedish woman the ACLU
>>might jump all over my ass. Why because I'm obviously wrong in my
>>thinking, right?
>>
>>But if I'm vengeful person, crazy, demented, and kidnap the lawyers who
>>went after me for my incorrect profiling thinking. And threw them all in
>>a specially designed pool. One they had to swim to the other side before
>>they drowned.
>>
>>And the pool was divided in half. One side is filled with dolphins. The
>>other side with sharks. And I told them, "you better not make any
>>politically incorrect decisions on which side you'll swim through".
>>
>>And I flip a coin, a fair 50-50 coin, to which side they'll have to
>>swim though. No prejudice against sharks. No profiling about any
>>animals on any level. Not just about humans.
>>
>>How many of those lawyers would become politically incorrect to protect
>>their asses?
>>
>>Bad example huh? OK, lets make it more realistic.
>>
>>You have a bunch of ACLU Jewish lawyer fathers with their daughters
>>instead. Having to send their daughters through a side filled with Blood
>>gang members. Young black gang members. Or wild rednecks. And the other
>>side was filled with priests. Throw some gay ones in for good measures.
>>
>>Would those Jewish fathers stick to politically correct profiling when
>>it might hurt their families. Or just when they're betting/hoping the
>>odds are, the hurt will never reach their affluent homes?
>>
>>Joking. But what do you think?
>
>I think I can understand your inability to recognize schizophrenia.
Why? Do you see something?
Mitchell Coffey
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