XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins   
   From: RaanOne@One.org   
      
   ----- Original Message -----   
   From: "Epoch II"    
   Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp   
   To:    
   Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 3:41 AM   
   Subject: Re: Council for Secular Humanism   
      
   > >Secular humanism offers an alternative to dogmatism.  It looks to the   
   power   
   > >of reason and science to overcome superstition and supernaturalism.   
   Science   
   > >and reason have given us the means of alleviating want from a world of   
   > >dwindling resources.  Still, in the current environment, science and   
   reason   
   > >are devalued in schools, in government, and in pop culture.  The lines   
   > >between entertainment and education are being blurred by the mass media.   
   >   
   > I find it ironic how this is posted to a Near Death Experience newsgroup.   
   Many   
   > of us here have spiritual beliefs based around the analysis and scientific   
   > research of NDE-like phenomena, according the Humanists supposed desire   
   for   
   > scientific inquiry -- this should be a GOOD thing.   
      
   It is indeed a good thing, and spiritual beliefs have nothing whatever to do   
   with it.   
      
   > But no, it isn't. If   
   > anything involves the aspect of spirituality then it is a taboo and you   
   are   
   > somehow an unfit person according to Humanism. Even if your beliefs are   
   still   
   > grounded in rationality.   
      
   If they are grounded in fact then belief is unnecessary.  Prove spirit even   
   exists without redefining it beyond what is asked.  Until then treat it as a   
   speculative hypothesis yet to be verified.   
      
   > >We are in the crosshairs of a culture war both in the U.S. and abroad.   
   The   
   > >forces of fundamentalism and unreason are gaining steam using political   
   > >leverage and social influence.   
   >   
   > What the f--- are the "forces of unreason" ?   
      
   What caused you to post this and think it reasonable.   
      
   >The most unreasonable thing I   
   > could possibly imagine is an anti-religious religion which tries to   
   convert   
   > people using the exact same techniques developed by the very dogma's which   
   they   
   > berate. No wonder you're underfunded.   
      
   That makes no sense whatever.  Even if these techniques are used, that is no   
   objection to what might make it an anti-religion.  Underfunding is due to   
   people's acceptance of stupidity and irrational belief.  It may well be due   
   to the fact that intelligent people are in the minority anf critical thought   
   requires intelligence.  Belief and dogma and religion and pseudoscience do   
   not.   
      
   > Belief in God is not hurting the world, violence is what's causing the   
   > problems. The Middle East is a giant torrent of ancient feuds and seething   
   > hatred, I doubt trying to turn people away from religion and toward   
   materialism   
   > is what's going to save us.   
      
   If you think that secular humanism with its ground in science and   
   skepticism, is materialism, then you are arguing a strawman becasue it   
   simply isn't.  Who says it is and calls himself a secular humanist is not.   
      
   As to your claim that belief in God is not hurting the world consider the   
   following: Belief is the fundamental cause of all human suffering.   
   Don't believe me but really think about that.   
   ~   
                  >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)