XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins   
   From: RaanOne@One.org   
      
   "Atman"  wrote in message   
   news:9ht9j0dc6j99vm68iq8i7ifl99cqmu9fe2@4ax.com...   
   > On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:52:31 +0000 (UTC), "Raan"    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   > >So to reason and apply that reason by means of the self correcting   
   objective   
   > >methods of science is to have as dogmatic a faith as any religion is that   
   > >right.  And I suppose mathematics as it is applied to engineering is just   
   an   
   > >occult magical system.  You might want to reassess your view.   
   >   
   > Nope!  Many of the belief systems, religious or otherwise, that are   
   > being denounced by Secular Humanism also claim to have scientific   
   > support or even scientific proof on their side.  All to often people   
   > ignore data that does not fit there view point.  This includes those   
   > who support Secular Humanism.  The observer is effecting that which is   
   > being observed.  The interpretation of scientific data is very   
   > subjective.   
   >   
   > Secular Humanism has received a bad name due to actions taken by   
   > Communist states under the banner of state sponsored Secular Humanism.   
   > Much like many religions receive a bad name due to the actions of   
   > extreme fundamentalists in their groups.  The Communist state replaced   
   > God and all to often the state then decides that it's OK to execute,   
   > imprison,  torture,  or re-educate all people who express any   
   > religious or spiritual beliefs.  Hundreds of millions died in Russia,   
   > China, Vietnam, and other Communists countries.   
   >   
   > Bottom line is that all dogma, fanaticism, fundamentalism, and   
   > extremism can be dangerous, even under the name of Secular Humanism.   
   >   
   >  Agreeing to respect other people's right to hold and publicly express   
   > their beliefs, even those religious beliefs that you disagree with,   
   > has proved to be the only workable solution.   
   >   
      
   And is universal tolerance tolerant of intolerance?   
   Beliefs are ignorance posing as knowledge.   
   The limitations of reason and science do not negate them.   
   Many think themselves reasonable that are not.   
   And many label themselves other than what they are.   
   My disagreement is with belief itself and none in particular.   
   These sentences may be out of order but there you have it.   
   --   
                  >   
      
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