XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins   
   From: Be@here.now   
      
   On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 06:34:06 +0000 (UTC), "Raan"    
   wrote:   
      
      
   >> Each one of us subjectively determines the quality   
   >> of the ideas.   
   >   
   >1+1=2 does not fit with this notion of yours.   
   >   
      
   Good example, 1 + 1 only equals 2 in some contexts.  One cell, plus   
   another cell, could equal a human given time and favorable conditions.   
      
   Or even if String or M theory is correct, then there could be many   
   more dimensions and geometry could be non-Euclidian.  What we know as   
   science could be just a special case of a much more vast experience.   
      
   >> Reason and science are but tools to serve mankind,   
   >> they are not our   
   >> god.   
   >   
   >No one claimed or implied or even hinted that science and reason were   
   >anyone's God but you just now, so why even mention it?   
   >   
      
   I pointed it out because reason and science is given as the highest   
   authority in some Secular Humanists circles.  The same authority as   
   "god" is given in some religious systems.   
      
   I very aware of the benefits of science, but I'm also aware of closed   
   minded bias' and prejudices by people who claim to be scientists.   
   Particular among so-called Scientific Materialists   
      
   Have you ever considered that there just might be states of   
   consciousness higher than that of reason or logic?  Many people,   
   including myself, have experienced these states.  But they are all to   
   often classified as "mystical" or "metaphysical" and disregarded in   
   the name of science.   
      
   >> So called "reason" and science, removed from love and   
   >> compassion, make a cruel and evil god.   
   >   
   >This sounds like apolitical rhetoric to me.   
   >Reason and science even if removed from love don't make any kind of a god   
   >that I have ever been aware of.  I have yet to encounter a god of any kind   
   >whatsoever.   
      
   Even if you do not remember,  or have not recognized an encounter with   
   god, does not void anyone else's experience with what they see as an   
   encounter with god.  I'm sure that there are many things outside of   
   either of our experiences.   
      
      
   -----   
   Don't get me wrong, I do agree with some points made by Secular   
   Humanism, but I do not agree with anyone practicing intolerance of   
   other's religious freedom.  I see state sponsored Secular Humanism the   
   same as state sponsored religion.  The state needs to stay   
   positionless in these matters, but allow all members of the state to   
   express there viewpoints and beliefs.  The only conditions upon this   
   freedom of religion should be mutually agreed upon basic morality.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)