XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins
From: mightymartianca@hotmail.com
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:35:35 +0000 (UTC),
Uncle Davey wrote:
>
> Użytkownik "AC" napisał w wiadomości
> news:slrnck1q1k.190.mightymartianca@aaronclausen.alberni.net...
>> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:36:55 +0000 (UTC),
>> Uncle Davey wrote:
>> >
>> > Użytkownik "AC" napisał w wiadomości
>> > news:slrncjv1bi.2b6.mightymartianca@aaronclausen.alberni.net...
>> >> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:37:48 +0000 (UTC),
>> >> Uncle Davey via Google wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > But there are those who have persecuted believers in the past and
> they
>> >> > will do so again in the future.
>> >>
>> >> And there are those that have persecuted non-believers.
>> >>
>> >> > It is written "all those who would
>> >> > live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution".
>> >>
>> >> Except that there have been periods of history where those that did not
>> >> believe Jesus was God and the savior where themselves persecuted
> against.
>> >> Even now, an atheist in the United States. no matter how honorable or
>> >> qualified, could achieve any high office. Worse, some good Christian
> folk
>> >> might even think him unAmerican, a threat to their religion and
>> > potentially
>> >> even a traitor, simply because he does not accept the existence of the
>> > God
>> >> of Abraham.
>> >>
>> >> >In the near
>> >> > future I plan, God willing to digitalise some recordings I made near
>> >> > the end of the Soviet Union when I was priviledged to be helping some
>> >> > very persecuted brethren and put them on my website.
>> >>
>> >> As long as you give equal time to the people brutalized by Christian
>> >> fundementalists.
>> >
>> > I don't know any of those personally, but if you give me a verifiable
>> > recording I'll put it up.
>>
>> I'm sure you can find some references to homosexuals being abused by
>> Christian fundies (you'll note, I'm not including all Christians here).
>>
>
> I'm sure they don't come in for personal abuse, only a fair comment about
> their lifestyle.
Just what do you think is a fair comment, Davey? You sure take umbrage at
someone saying "Christians abuse Jews", and rightfully so, as not all
Christians abuse Jews. But suddenly when the shoe is on the other foot,
it's "fair comment"?
> One of my close friends is a homosexual, in fact I'll be at
> one of his concerts this evening. Does that mean I have to say that the
> homosexual lifestyle is ok?
It means you let each man (or woman) lead the life they choose. I thought
there was thing about judgement in your religion, you know, how it's God's
job, and not your's.
>I don't think so, and yet I am perfectly
> friendly to them as long as they don't try picking me up.
How do you react when a woman tries to pick you up, Davey?
>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I'm not attacking Christianity, I'm attacking a mindset that refuses
> all
>> >> compromise, that not only claim that they are right, but that are
> willing
>> > to
>> >> suppress those that disagree.
>> >>
>> >> The Soviet Union was one country, twisted by power-hungry men seeking
> to
>> >> break the old ties to the equally dictatorial Czars (who, ironically,
> were
>> >> among the last monarchs to proclaim their divine right to rule from the
>> > God
>> >> of Abraham). It wasn't atheism that drove them, but rather the need to
>> > cut
>> >> away the symbolism of the old Christian Russia. Atheism was a political
>> >> tool, which I don't think you'd find many atheists today approving of.
>> >
>> > The guy you were speaking to would and the guy who first suggested I go
> and
>> > get my ass kicked at t.o. seemed to.
>>
>> I won't deny that there mean-spirited atheists. I have no greater love
> for
>> them than you do. Most of the atheists I know have no desire to destroy
>> Christianity, they just want to be respected as human beings, not accorded
>> respect because they attend the right temple.
>
> Everyone deserves a respect as a human based on the UN declaration of Human
> Rights, an audio book of which I am preparing for my website.
>
>> >> The Soviet Union attempted to replace religion with party doctrine. It
>> >> created a cult of personality around Lenin, changing him from
>> > Revolutionary
>> >> leader into an ideological saint, treated with the same reverence that
>> >> Christian saints before had been. That is not my idea of a secular
>> > society,
>> >> but rather one where one religion was simply swapped for another.
> Where
>> > the
>> >> Christian religion in Russia was wound around the Bible, saints and the
>> >> power of the Orthodox Church, the new religion was wound around Marx's
>> >> writings, the Communist Party and the culthood of Lenin (and later, the
>> >> temporary deification of Stalin).
>> >>
>> >> The same pattern was seen in China, where the Maoists attempted to make
> a
>> >> clean break from Chinese tradition, particularly Confucisism. Sadly, I
>> >> think the Maoists may have been more successful and destroying China's
>> >> heritage than the Leninists and Stalinists were in Russia.
>> >>
>> >> My idea of a secular society is one where freedom of worship is
>> > guaranteed,
>> >> where every faith is treated equally, and where government governs for
> all
>> >> the people, and without faovritism towards any one faith or sect
> therein.
>> >> It does not intrude religious beliefs into the activities of
> government.
>> >> The government should be blind to whether one is a Catholic, Methodist,
>> >> Muslim, Jew, Wiccan or atheist, and yet all of these, and the entire
>> >> spectrum of beliefs, should be tolerated. In such a society, it may
> mean
>> >> that certain religous-based moral codes may be violated by notions of
>> >> abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage, but those religious people will
>> >> understand that such a society also protects their beliefs and their
> faith
>> >> from the interference of the state.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not asking you to agree with my atheism, Davey, nor am I demanding
>> > that
>> >> your church approve of abortion, euthanasia or homosexual marriages.
> I'm
>> >> asking that you ponder a society where every man is allowed to decide
>> > these
>> >> things on his own, or in a group that he freely follows, without
> official
>> >> encumbrance from any branch or representative of government. Let your
>> >> conscience rule your own actions, but don't seek to let it rule the
>> > actions
>> >> of others, and let any morals or ethics to be accepted by society in
>> > general
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