XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins   
   From: Be@here.now.easynews.com   
      
   On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 05:50:46 +0000 (UTC), "Raan"    
   wrote:   
      
      
   >> Actually, there is a great deal of scientific research conducted   
   >> around these type of experiences - with witnesses.  But by the very   
   >> nature of the experience there is very little room for "controlled"   
   >> experiments.  The most convening reports in relation to consciousness   
   >> are the experiences reported by doctors.  Many in-depth surveys have   
   >> been conducted of random doctors and the probabilities point to the   
   >> survival of consciousness after the death of the physical body.   
   >   
   >You are certainly overstating the case.   
   >   
      
   I don't think so, but you should investigate the evidence yourself.   
   But having had a near death experience, out of body experiences, and   
   other experiences, I make no claim of being unbiased.   
      
      
   >   
   >What you refer to as cutting edge science might be better referred to as   
   >fringe science.  What the true mystics say about transcendence is that   
   >nothing can be said of it not even that it is transcendent.   
   >   
      
   Today's fringe is tomorrow mainstream.  Much real scientific progress   
   was made by those who where called fringe in there time.   
      
   True mystics speak much about transcendence.  How would anyone have   
   ever heard of transcendence otherwise.  It is even embedded into many   
   religious texts, but often over looked or misunderstood.  Mystics do   
   point out that it's like describing light to a blind person.  Often   
   highly descriptive and figurative language are used, as well as   
   parables and poetry.   
      
      
      
   >> -----------------------------------------------------------------   
   >> Suggested reading:   
   >>   
   >> *****  "At the hour of Death", by Karlis Osis, Ph.D.  *****   
   >>   
   >> "The Afterlife Experiments" by Gary E. Schwartz, Ph D.   
   >>   
   >> "Mindsight" by Kenneth Ring   
   >>   
   >> "The Undiscovered Mind" by John Horgan   
   >>   
   >> "The Living Energy Universe" by Gary E.R. Schwartz   
   >>   
   >> "Mind at Large: Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers   
   >> Symposia on the Nature of Extrasensory Perception (Studies in   
   >> Consciousness)" by Charles T. Tart, Harold E. Puthoff, Russell Targ   
   >>   
   >> "The Consciousness Universe" by Dean Radin, Ph.D.   
   >   
   >I appreciate the bibliography but it seems to lack and skeptical viewpoints   
   >and counter arguments.  And since it is less likely I am going to purchase   
   >these books and may not even find them in my local library it would be   
   >better if you cited some websites instead.   
   >Thank you.   
      
   The list wasn't really intended to include skeptical viewpoints, but   
   rather to provide some very interesting scientific studies that anyone   
   interested in science investigation into the nature of consciousness   
   might be interested.   
      
    "At the hour of death"  Is a large study of death bed experiences as   
   reported by doctors in the USA and India.  "Mindsight" is about NDE's   
   of blind persons.  These two would be my top picks from that list.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)