XPost: talk.religion.course-miracle, alt.support.chronic-pain, misc.writing   
   From: starswirler@aol.com   
      
   Must be getting old... i missed this article... sorry Father   
   (and still posting from misc.writing)...   
      
   "Father Luke"  wrote...   
   in message news:Xns9567435A54E6WhatMeWorry@129.250.170.84...   
   >   
   > Painius wrote:   
   > >   
   > >  Is that a trick question?...   
   >   
   > Honest question. If death is not real, what is the nature of dreams?   
      
   Death *is* real.  Just ask anyone who is still alive and can make   
   no more memories with loved ones who have passed.  Death is   
   very, very real to them.   
      
   Yet whether or not death is real, your second half deserves a   
   better crack than i gave before...   
      
   > > If we allow that life cannot be compromised, and If we also allow   
   > > that "the real world" is indeed real, then i submit that the nature of   
   > > dreams is simply put...   
   > >   
   > > We dream in order to deal with the everyday problems/challenges   
   > > which we encounter.  So dreams have a healing nature and are   
   > > vital to our mental balance.  And this is true for whatever physical   
   > > state in which we happen to find ourselves.   
   >   
   > Speaks to the dreaming of the dream, and its purpose. Not to what the   
   nature of   
   > dreams are.   
   >   
   > I'm not trying to be a hard ass here, but if death is an illusion, then   
   convince   
   > me. Convince me by illustrating the nature of dreams and why they POOF go   
   away upon   
   > waking.   
   >   
   > See, if dreams are part of an illusion, that this *life* as we know it is   
   an   
   > illusion,  and that death eternal is but an error in thinking, then   
   happiness would   
   > not matter and dreams will be a fuction of what?   
      
   Okay, Father, if you will allow it, i prefer not to tackle the   
   "life as illusion" question.  I honestly don't have an answer   
   for that one other than the fact that i'm *reasonably" sure   
   that life, along with non-living things, is a real and vitally   
   important part of our universe.  And, that i expect this to   
   be supported by future studies of our solar system and the   
   galaxy.   
      
   Now, why do dreams go POOF upon waking?  This helps   
   to show that the nature of dreams speaks to the very nature   
   of thought itself, whether waking thought or sleeping thought.   
      
   One important aspect of thinking is that one can only think   
   of one thing at a time.  Whether awake or asleep, thoughts   
   go POOF out of the mind frequently.  To test this, one must   
   know how to relax and try to clear the mind of thought.  It   
   isn't as easy as it sounds and takes a good deal of practice.   
   We are thinking beings, and it takes an enormous effort to   
   be "non-thinking" even for a little while.   
      
   To get to the focus, the center of the nature of dreams, we   
   can deepen our thinking toward the nature of thought.  As   
   we swim deeper, it becomes clear that there are marked   
   differences between waking thought and dreams. One that   
   readily comes to mind is that dreams are usually loaded   
   with vivid imagery, i.e., visual images, pictures of things   
   that move in similar manner to those which we see with our   
   eyes when we're awake.  Our waking thought is much less   
   cluttered with these vivid pictures and much more   
   concerned with intellectual symbols... words.   
      
   Especially writers.  Writers find their waking time (and   
   sometimes even the making of their livings) full of words.   
   When we are awake, we seldom think in terms of pictures   
   and most often think using words.   
      
   Since this practice is likely very young from an evolutionary   
   standpoint, it may be that dreams also serve the purpose of   
   leveling out our thinking by using the ancient art of "picture   
   thinking" so that we can feel more balanced, more like   
   natural beings.   
      
   Another very important comparison between waking and   
   sleeping thought would be the amount of control we have   
   over the content.  People generally exhibit a good deal of   
   control over their waking thoughts and little-to-no control   
   over their dreams.   
      
   I liked what you said about the nature of dreams being tied   
   to communication.  Some even believe that it may often be   
   linked to a form of esoteric transportation as well.  But here   
   we begin to enter the realm of philosophy.  While this may   
   not be a *bad* thing, i want to try to avoid any kind of   
   philosophical battle, especially with some of the scribblers   
   in these newsgroups.  So let's stick to what we know...   
      
   > > Forgive my arrogant wording.  The above is, at best, a speculative   
   > > hypothesis.   
   >   
   > I have my own I'll share with you. I hypothesise that the fear of death   
   has killed   
   > more people than living ever has. Why not? If death is not real, then that   
   fear is   
   > a killer! But if it is real, then why fight, fear and exdplain it away   
   with   
   > gibberish?   
   >   
   > And you may say that I'm a dreamer . . .  .   
   >   
   > Time to share pith? My fave: Have you been double crossed today?   
   > --   
   > Father Luke   
      
   Thanks for sharing.  Again, let me shy away from the nature   
   of life and death and try to speak only to the nature of dreams.   
      
   So what do we mean when we say, "nature"?  You decline to   
   equate nature with "purpose" and well so.  Perhaps we mean   
   nature as "essence"?  "What is the essence of dreams?" "What   
   is the essence of thought?"   
      
   Essential to thinking is the existence of a mind.  Are we sure   
   that minds are unique to human beings?  Extensive studies of   
   animals have unveiled that they also think. And there are some   
   researchers who will avidly affirm that even plants can show   
   a capacity for thought.  I have come across a study which   
   shows that even a tiny one-celled being, the amoeba (a being   
   with no brain at all) is capable of learning.  This should come   
   as no surprise when one considers embryonic stem cells which   
   somehow learn to become muscle cells, or liver cells or brain   
   cells.   
      
   So i believe that the essence of thought, the nature of thought   
   and of dreams, is associative.  It may very well be that it all   
   boils down to the control of electricity, or, in other words, the   
   manipulation of energy by living beings on a cellular level. One   
   simple charge associates with another simple charge, and   
   another and another leading to a complex association.  This   
   climbs the tree until it becomes an associative thought in the   
   mind.  Sometimes this thought becomes a conscious, waking   
   association.  More often it may guide our behavior from a   
   subconcious (waking) or an unconscious (dreaming) level.   
      
   So to understand the nature of dreams, we must pursue the   
   nature of thought.  To know the nature of thought, we then   
   try to capture the nature of the mind.  And to comprehend   
   the mind, we study the physical aspect of it that's embedded   
   in the brain, the nervous system, and the nuclear coding.   
      
   To get to the underlying nature of dreams, then, is to look for   
   the very nature of energy itself.  And energy has many   
   unexplored puzzles and pathways.   
      
   happy days and...   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)