XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins   
   From: sfct@aol.com   
      
   Raan wrote:   
   >   
   >  wrote in message   
   > news:4d71d185.0408230923.4981c7c@posting.google.com...   
   > > >What are the odds of someone having a dream about a   
   > > >friend who happens to die that particular night with   
   > > >a white light in it?   
   > >   
   > > Considering the number of people in the world, and the number of   
   > > dreams all those people dream, it does not seem as improbable as you   
   > > may think. I was at the funeral of a guy who, showing why a   
   > > dilapilated building needs to be torn down, said (in the exact words)   
   > > "Even standing here is dangerous - any moment now, a piece of the   
   > > facade could fall down and hit any of us." At the moment the word "us"   
   > > came out of his mouth, a large piece of facade fell down on him,   
   > > killing him instantly. What are the chances of that? Another person I   
   > > know got shot in the head in the course of Bosnian war; the bullet   
   > > entered through under his jaw, and blew off the top of his head   
   > > completely. He survived, with only some minor trouble with memory, and   
   > > some twitching in his left arm. After many surgeries and a long   
   > > rehabilitation, he went home. He climbed up the stairs, entered his   
   > > apartment for the first time in two years, slipped on an orange peel,   
   > > fell back down the stairs, and died instantly of a broken neck. What   
   > > are the chances of that happening?   
   > >   
   > > Many things happen in this world that seem exceedingly improbable;   
   > > but, quite obviously, they are not in fact as improbable as they seem.   
   > >   
   > > Not to mention how people's recollection of dreams changes with time.   
   > > I was once convinced I had a prophetic dream. A family friend died of   
   > > a heart attack once when I was on vacation; when I heard the news, I   
   > > suddenly recollected that I dreamt about him two nights earlier, and   
   > > that he was clutching at his heart in my dream. I was astounded - as   
   > > you say, what are the chances of that being a coincidence.   
   > >   
   > > For two weeks, I tried to remember the details of the dream; I   
   > > remembered that there was an eerie light present, that he was sad   
   > > about something...it was all quite uncanny.   
   > >   
   > > Then I came back home, and checked my journal (at that time I was   
   > > dabbling in psychology, and kept a voice recorder next to my bed;   
   > > immediately upon waking, I would record the description of any dreams   
   > > I could recollect).   
   > >   
   > > It turned out that it wasn't him in the dream at all; it was a   
   > > different family friend altogether (and he's still alive today). I did   
   > > dream of the one who died, but it was several weeks before, and in   
   > > that dream, we were playing basketball. No eerie light, no clutching   
   > > at the breast...   
   > >   
   > > So what is the point?   
   > >   
   > > People have been telling about the prophetic power of dreams since the   
   > > dawn of time; yet, the number of successful prophecies is dead on the   
   > > statistically expected average for just guessing. People have weird   
   > > dreams all the time, and then they embelish them in their memory after   
   > > some "close enough" event takes place, and they make way too much out   
   > > of it.   
   > >   
   > > If you want to prove that dreams can predict death, you need to   
   > > actually do exactly that: predict a death on the basis of a dream,   
   > > BEFORE the death happens. Making your dream sound prophetic AFTER the   
   > > event won't work.   
   > >   
   > > If you wish to be taken seriously, put in some effort, and do at least   
   > > a semi-serious study. Find five or ten friends, have them record their   
   > > dreams for a year, especially dreams in which white light appears in   
   > > connection to some person. Have them record their dreams as soon as   
   > > they have them. Then look and see if the person actually dies. Come   
   > > back after doing that, and tell us what you found.   
   > >   
   > > If you find an actual correlation, there will be plenty of people more   
   > > then willing to do larger studies (and if your methodology is good   
   > > enough, you'll be able to win Randy's million bucks, and use them to   
   > > fund further studies of your own).   
   > >   
   > > Good luck,   
   > > M.   
   >   
   > A very patient and commendable appeal to common sense.   
   > Well done, thank you.   
   > --   
   >                >   
      
      
      
      
     Gee, many scientist have many theories on how some physical things   
   work, but very few theories bear out when tested. Does it mean all   
   theories suck? Or all scientists are fakes?   
      
     But the need for testing with positive bonding between people has yet   
   to be done. Randi? Is he the one who changes the standards when h is   
   ready to lose his money? I don't know much about him. Anyone can find a   
   fake, all ready to con money from the naive.   
      
   I'm more interested in the testing they conducted at Princeton. And how   
   some former CIA agents claim they were trained to remote view.   
      
   I don't need someone with a little/or-no understanding of science   
   showing me how the mind might work. Let Randi stick to what he knows   
   best. Magic tricks and any fakes hustling money using those tricks on   
   the naive. I'm sure he can easily spot someone using some of the tricks   
   he has been taught. Those money grubbing fakes are his realm of   
   expertise. But cognitive science, the nature of information, how SPACE   
   might communicate information, the nature of awareness, the nature of   
   perception, oh pleaseeeeeeeeee keep the man home.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)