XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins
From: mightymartianca@hotmail.com
Raan wrote:
> "AC" wrote in message
> news:2pes4oFkdmdcU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
>>Raan wrote:
>>
>>>"AC" wrote in message
>>>news:2pedu1Fjo0cjU1@uni-berlin.de...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Nick Keighley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Raan" wrote in message
>>>
>>>news:...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>"Nick Keighley" wrote in message
>>>>>>news:aed14a74.0408281538.2cf45017@posting.google.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Raan" wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Never before have our challenges been so great. Never has your
>>>
>>>support
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>been so important.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Secular humanism offers an alternative to dogmatism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>the trouble is, posts like yours lead us to believe that "secular
>>>>>>
>>>>>>humanism"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>*is* dogmatism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How do you figure that and why do I need to ask this since you could
>>>
>>>just as
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>well have explained yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I suspect since you have to ask that you won't agree. Your original
>
> post
>
>>>>>sounds like preaching. You even ask for money at the end!
>>>>>
>>>>>You try to conflate "science and reason" with "secularism and
>
> humanism".
>
>>>>>I find the statement "Much of the progress of the twentieth century can
>>>
>>>be
>>>
>>>
>>>>>directly attributed to the rise of secularism and humanism"
>
> contentious.
>
>>>>I'd say a growing secularism has had a lot to do with increasing
>>>>tolerance. As to the humanism claim, well, frankly, I don't think it's
>>>>even a blip on the radar.
>>>>
>>>>One must note that this individual, like his theistic counterparts of
>>>>similar mood, appears to equate secularism with atheism. There are
>>>>plenty of people of faith who are secularists, because they know it's
>>>>the only way to preserve religious liberties for all (themselves
>>>
>>>included).
>>>
>>>
>>>>For myself, I have no time for secular humanist clubs, even if they give
>>>>out neat beanies. My primary interest is simply to have people worry a
>>>>lot less about what their fellow humans believe or don't believe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm left wondering if you had religious upbringing.
>>>>
>>>>My suspicion also.
>>>
>>>
>>>My post was clearly a quotation of a letter written by another.
>>
>>Then that observation sits with him, though judging by the rest of your
>>post, it would seem that you have similar leanings yourself. Were you
>>always a secular humanist?
>>
>>
>>>The equal rights of individuals and the ideal of reason and rationality
>>>based on this real world we all live in, have both been of such far
>
> reaching
>
>>>influence that the powers and freedoms we enjoy today as common
>
> individuals
>
>>>in most of this free society, surpass even that of kings as little as
>
> two
>
>>>centuries ago.
>>
>>I know theists who have no problems whatsoever with freedoms. At least
>>some great reformers, like Gladstone, seem to have been driven by their
>>religious beliefs. Perhaps the world isn't quite so black and white as
>>either side would like to claim.
>>
>> > There is nothing dogmatic or religious about these facts
>>
>>>much as you might want to think so.
>>
>>It is attempt to seize secularism and fashion it as an atheistic
>>creation which I find disturbing. As an atheist, I know full well that
>>secularism isn't reserved merely for the a-religious, but is a concept
>>that is shared by many religious people as well. A number of the
>>framers of such wonderous secular documents as the US Constitution were
>>deists, and yet they seemed to have a pretty damn good handle on
>
> secularism.
>
>>>The only faith that secular humanism
>>>requires is the faith in one's own reason such as we have faith in our
>>>ability to walk. Yet so many stumble and trip and fall repeatedly and
>
> then
>
>>>claim it was God's will or blame the enemy lol.
>>
>>I have no reason to slur the religious, and I'm afraid your slurs and
>>oversimplifications and generalizations rather indicate that you share
>>that intolerance that some theists do.
>>
>>Get over it, pal. The world's a big place, and pissing on the other
>>parade isn't going to make it better. You're part of the problem, not
>>part of the solution. Right-minded people, theistic or atheistic,
>>should not desire to mock the other man's point of view, but rather
>>accept his right to have his faith or lack of faith, so that everyone
>>can wake up in the morning, pray or not pray, go to work, be productive
>>members of society, go home, go to church or not go to church, so that
>>they can wake up the next morning and do it all over again. Show a
>>little respect.
>>
>>This sort of idiotic humanist evangelism is as pathetic and
>>disrespectful and theistic evangelism. If I had the power to choose, I
>>wouldn't mind seeing all the evangelists of all stripes carted off to
>>some far off island and leave the rest of humanity to get on with
>>things. You guys pick fights and then automatically assume those folks
>>you count on your side of the field are going to follow your rallying cry.
>>
>>Well, you won't get me, atheistic secularist that I am. I'm in the camp
>>of everyone believing what they want and letting the other guy believe
>>what they want.
>
>
> My view is that belief is not even to be tolerated let alone respected but
> to be reviled and avoided as with an illness, and those so afflicted pitied
> and if possible, treated. Belief is the root cause of all suffering. Look
> into it.
I'm well aware of your view. It's bigotry, pure and simple. It is the
same mentality that allows some theist to come along and say atheists
are immoral.
My atheism is no more supportable than the Pope's theism. I consider it
a rational position, but not a scientific one. The root of humanity's
problems is arrogant individuals like yourself who have fixated upon
absolutes to the point where empathy and common cause with other people
of differing world views are impossible.
You're a fundemenatlist atheist, just as intellectually diseased and
morally perverted as your theistic counterparts.
I think I have a unique vantage on this, being married to a Catholic. I
don't agree with my wife's beliefs, and find her faith perplexing at
times, but you know what, that's her right, and neither I, you or any
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