XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins   
   From: sfct@aol.com   
      
   Mitchell Coffey wrote:   
   >   
   > On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:46:17 +0000 (UTC), stevefct    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   > >Mitchell Coffey wrote:   
   > >>   
   > >> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 17:46:45 +0000 (UTC), stevefct    
   > >> wrote:   
   > >>   
   > >> >Floyd wrote:   
   > >> >>   
   > >> >> olive  wrote in message news:<41218DE2.29A4@aol.com>...   
   > >> >> > Raan wrote:   
   > >> >> > >   
   > >> >> > > The fact of the constancy of the speed of light had been   
   experimentally   
   > >> >> > > proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  It was the explanation for it   
   that was   
   > >> >> > > lacking until Einstein came up with one.  The relation by analogy   
   to   
   > >> >> > > apparent psychic events is marginal owing to the lack of any   
   factual   
   > >> >> > > evidence and the subjective interpretations that color the   
   perceptions being   
   > >> >> > > reported.  The fellow with the magnetic field helmet was at least   
   getting   
   > >> >> > > closer to establishing experimental fact.  If you want to think   
   you are   
   > >> >> > > being scientific then remember that all good scientists are above   
   all else   
   > >> >> > > skeptics.   
   > >> >> > > --   
   > >> >> > >                >   
   > >> >> > >   
   > >> >> > > "rogerst"  wrote in message news:40E4   
   8A2.33DB@yahoo.com...   
   > >> >> > > > Actually you guys there is someone famous in math, generally not   
   read I   
   > >> >> > > > know, who experienced the white light, BUT WHEN HE DIED, but when   
   > >> >> > > > somebody much more famous than him died. Let me repeat it as I   
   did at my   
   > >> >> > > > site here : read past the short build-up.   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > During the turn of the century some scientists conducted   
   experiments   
   > >> >> > > > hoping to discover the speed of light. Of course, it would be   
   the same   
   > >> >> > > > as sound, only much faster. They weren't looking for anything   
   more,   
   > >> >> > > > anything strange. But STRANGE CAME CALLING! They discovered the   
   speed of   
   > >> >> > > > light had the same speed no matter what the reference. Now   
   anyone with   
   > >> >> > > > an understanding of physics knew that was impossible. And where   
   was that   
   > >> >> > > > damm ether they just knew had to permeate all space??   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > Speed of Light was a constant- no matter what reference?   
   Shouldn't be,   
   > >> >> > > > but was. No ether, but light was a wave, every wave needed a   
   medium to   
   > >> >> > > > travel through, so ether had to exist..but DIDN'T. Another   
   shouldn't be.   
   > >> >> > > > But there was an over-educated little Jewish patent clerk. Poor   
   student,   
   > >> >> > > > low grades. Destined for failure. Why? Just ask any of his   
   teachers.   
   > >> >> > > > They would tell you just why he was just a patent clerk.   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > And he was smart enough to accept a weird universe with   
   impossible laws.   
   > >> >> > > > Like the speed of light being a constant. Some of the others   
   were too   
   > >> >> > > > busy trying to figure out what went wrong with the experiment.   
   But he   
   > >> >> > > > persisted and there went E=M * C-squared. All because he   
   accepted what   
   > >> >> > > > others COULDN'T.   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > Now today, it is the same today with another observation. One   
   which   
   > >> >> > > > can't be repeated. One which has to be taken on faith. But one,   
   if it   
   > >> >> > > > pans out will open another new door. One other point before I   
   forget. So   
   > >> >> > > > like me these days. The people who debunk NDEs, claiming to   
   explain it   
   > >> >> > > > away with brain chemistry gone wild in a dying brain, neglecting   
   NDErs   
   > >> >> > > > seem to come back when they are told to come back, neglect they   
   were not   
   > >> >> > > > in a state of denial, but thought themselves dead, neglect the   
   state   
   > >> >> > > > wasn't chaotic, but with crystal clarity, neglect the odds of   
   many   
   > >> >> > > > people having the same exact experience, neglect that NDEs see   
   only only   
   > >> >> > > > dead, not live people, and neglect they don't know what they are   
   talking   
   > >> >> > > > about.   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > BUT HERE IS ONE THEY CAN"T EXPLAIN!   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > Rudy Rucker was a student studying mathematics at Rutgers in the   
   1970s.   
   > >> >> > > > Set theory. But let him tell it from his book, Infinity and the   
   Mind. It   
   > >> >> > > > is no New Age book, its a book on set theory. But in it, he took   
   time   
   > >> >> > > > out to explain his own experience with Godel.   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > He had the rare opportunity to meet and talk math with Godel.   
   That is   
   > >> >> > > > like discussing physics with Einstein. Godel was a giant in   
   mathematics.   
   > >> >> > > > It was a rare privilege. Godel was at the time living at   
   Princeton   
   > >> >> > > > University.   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > Well, let me get back to Rudy.   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > You see, when someone experiences a NDE, you can makes claims   
   about   
   > >> >> > > > their dying brain. But what about a healthy young mathematician   
   who   
   > >> >> > > > experienced the white light, not when he was dying, but when   
   someone   
   > >> >> > > > else was dying. This is your......damm light travels at the same   
   speed   
   > >> >> > > > no matter what, but this time in dreams and that famous White   
   Light.   
   > >> >> > > > Metaphysics, not physics. With the metaphysical realm deeper into   
   > >> >> > > > reality. No surprise. Now if you accept it and try to explain   
   > >> >> > > > it..ahhh...new insights.   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > Play a modern Einstein.   
   > >> >> > > > But this time its a mental light you're trying to understand.   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > Rudy, "I dreamed I was at his bedside. There was a chessboard on   
   the   
   > >> >> > > > covers on front of him. Godel reached his hand out and knocked   
   the board   
   > >> >> > > > over, tipping the men onto the floor. The chessboard expanded   
   into an   
   > >> >> > > > infinite mathematical plane. And then that, too, vanished. There   
   was a   
   > >> >> > > > brief play of symbols, and then emptiness-an emptiness flooded   
   with even   
   > >> >> > > > white light. The next day I learned Kurt Godel was dead."   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > Well? PLAY EINSTEIN AND FIGURE IT OUT!   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> > > > Can you figure out what Kurt Godel was telling Rudy Rucker about   
   the   
   > >> >> > > > nature of   
   > >> >> > > > reality?   
   > >> >> > > >   
   > >> >> >   
   > >> >> >   
   > >> >> >   
   > >> >> > Raan you didn't understand the post at all, did you? It wasn't about   
   the   
   > >> >> > speed of light, but about learning to accept what seems to be the   
   > >> >> > impossible when you're forced to face new objective facts. Einstein   
   > >> >> > understood the lesson, you can't, even when it is pointed out to you   
   by   
   > >> >> > another.   
   > >> >> >   
      
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