XPost: sci.psychology.psychotherapy, alt.consciousness, talk.origins
From: RaanOne@One.org
"Uncle Davey" wrote in message
news:chqlvd$ub0$0@pita.alt.net...
>
> Użytkownik "AC" napisał w wiadomości
> news:slrncjv1bi.2b6.mightymartianca@aaronclausen.alberni.net...
> > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:37:48 +0000 (UTC),
> > Uncle Davey via Google wrote:
> > >
> > > But there are those who have persecuted believers in the past and they
> > > will do so again in the future.
> >
> > And there are those that have persecuted non-believers.
> >
> > > It is written "all those who would
> > > live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution".
> >
> > Except that there have been periods of history where those that did not
> > believe Jesus was God and the savior where themselves persecuted
against.
> > Even now, an atheist in the United States. no matter how honorable or
> > qualified, could achieve any high office. Worse, some good Christian
folk
> > might even think him unAmerican, a threat to their religion and
> potentially
> > even a traitor, simply because he does not accept the existence of the
> God
> > of Abraham.
> >
> > >In the near
> > > future I plan, God willing to digitalise some recordings I made near
> > > the end of the Soviet Union when I was priviledged to be helping some
> > > very persecuted brethren and put them on my website.
> >
> > As long as you give equal time to the people brutalized by Christian
> > fundementalists.
>
> I don't know any of those personally, but if you give me a verifiable
> recording I'll put it up.
>
> >
> > I'm not attacking Christianity, I'm attacking a mindset that refuses all
> > compromise, that not only claim that they are right, but that are
willing
> to
> > suppress those that disagree.
> >
> > The Soviet Union was one country, twisted by power-hungry men seeking to
> > break the old ties to the equally dictatorial Czars (who, ironically,
were
> > among the last monarchs to proclaim their divine right to rule from the
> God
> > of Abraham). It wasn't atheism that drove them, but rather the need to
> cut
> > away the symbolism of the old Christian Russia. Atheism was a political
> > tool, which I don't think you'd find many atheists today approving of.
>
> The guy you were speaking to would and the guy who first suggested I go
and
> get my ass kicked at t.o. seemed to.
>
> >
> > The Soviet Union attempted to replace religion with party doctrine. It
> > created a cult of personality around Lenin, changing him from
> Revolutionary
> > leader into an ideological saint, treated with the same reverence that
> > Christian saints before had been. That is not my idea of a secular
> society,
> > but rather one where one religion was simply swapped for another. Where
> the
> > Christian religion in Russia was wound around the Bible, saints and the
> > power of the Orthodox Church, the new religion was wound around Marx's
> > writings, the Communist Party and the culthood of Lenin (and later, the
> > temporary deification of Stalin).
> >
> > The same pattern was seen in China, where the Maoists attempted to make
a
> > clean break from Chinese tradition, particularly Confucisism. Sadly, I
> > think the Maoists may have been more successful and destroying China's
> > heritage than the Leninists and Stalinists were in Russia.
> >
> > My idea of a secular society is one where freedom of worship is
> guaranteed,
> > where every faith is treated equally, and where government governs for
all
> > the people, and without faovritism towards any one faith or sect
therein.
> > It does not intrude religious beliefs into the activities of government.
> > The government should be blind to whether one is a Catholic, Methodist,
> > Muslim, Jew, Wiccan or atheist, and yet all of these, and the entire
> > spectrum of beliefs, should be tolerated. In such a society, it may
mean
> > that certain religous-based moral codes may be violated by notions of
> > abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage, but those religious people will
> > understand that such a society also protects their beliefs and their
faith
> > from the interference of the state.
> >
> > I'm not asking you to agree with my atheism, Davey, nor am I demanding
> that
> > your church approve of abortion, euthanasia or homosexual marriages.
I'm
> > asking that you ponder a society where every man is allowed to decide
> these
> > things on his own, or in a group that he freely follows, without
official
> > encumbrance from any branch or representative of government. Let your
> > conscience rule your own actions, but don't seek to let it rule the
> actions
> > of others, and let any morals or ethics to be accepted by society in
> general
> > be governed by the principles of basic individual freedoms.
> >
> > That's what I mean when I reject fundementalism, or any movement by any
> > individual or group to enforce their own beliefs or lack of beliefs upon
> > other people. Though I would fight to my last breath to prevent your
> > omphalism or your Calvinism from being taught in public schools in my
> > country or to be given government favor or sanction, by the same token
I'd
> > fight against any Secular Humanist who attempted to stop you from
publicly
> > declaring your beliefs.
> >
>
> As you know I am not fighting to have religious themes brought into
schools
> anyway, as these are for Church and family.
>
> I believe in the free market of ideas, and therefore I have said all along
> that all should be free to put forward their ideas.
>
> Homosexuals who wish to live together ought to be given the same tax
breaks
> if any apply as heterosexuals, since I am not after their money, and the
> same benefits with regard to inheritance, quiet enjoyment of their
property,
> etc. But they should not be allowed to propagandise their views in schools
> either, and I am fed up of having homosexuality crammed down my throat on
> almost every programme made and shown by the BBC. Also I am not happy at
> allowing public toilets to become places where I have to confront these
> people cruising around when all I want is a dump or a piss. I just don't
> like it, that's all. I've had to put up with the occasional attempt at me
by
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* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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