From: whatever@twixtntween.com   
      
   On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:46:16 -0700, Crowfoot    
   wrote:   
      
   >In article ,   
   > Jyeshta  wrote:   
   >   
   >> I wrote:   
   >>   
   >> >> What you said in a prior post, about the urge to experience   
   >> >> physicality - to be able to run in a strong body - many cannot!  To   
   >> >> taste favorite foods again - I believe all one need do is remember it   
   >> >> and the taste is experienced.  I don't believe at all that the   
   >> >> prospect of physicality is attractive to the older discarnate soul or   
   >> >> entity.   
   >> >   
   >> >Well, but suppose you were unable to have an athletic or even a   
   >> >fit body in this life, but then you're done and you realize that for   
   >> >your next time around you can choose a body that's super-fit and   
   >> >maybe is even going to be able to travel to the stars -- the   
   >> >*physical* stars, not the vibrational perception of them that I   
   >> >suppose non-physical beings would have.  That would be a pretty   
   >> >strong temptation, wouldn't it?  I think it's a grass-is-always-   
   >> >greener kind of situation: when you're in the body, you long to be   
   >> >pure spirit, but when you're only spirit -- maybe then you long for   
   >> >the powers of the body?  Why else would we keep coming back   
   >> >(which I believe we do)?  Because of some kind of determinism?   
   >> >Well, maybe -- but I'd rather believe that I choose to return   
   >> >because there's something magnetic about being *here*, too.   
   >> >And in the absence of proof either way, I think I'll stay with that.   
   >>   
   >> I guess we'll need to agree to disagree on that point, then.   
   >   
   >Sure, no problem.   
   >   
   >> I don't believe at all that we are eager, after hundreds of   
   >> incarnations, to jump into an incarnation of pure suffering, for   
   >> example.  Sure, if we arrange to have a mostly happy life, maybe the   
   >> prospect of such an incarnation seems all right.  But for the most   
   >> part, I do not think that older souls welcome additional incarnations,   
   >> at least not on this planet.   
   >   
   >I think I misunderstood you: I also think that older souls are   
   >much less interested in coming back the older they get, but   
   >return as many times as needed to to complete their -- studies?   
   >experiences? -- here, including choosing specific lives (and   
   >specific partners -- those they have previously injured or been   
   >injured by) to collaborate with on repaying or collecting out-   
   >standing karmic debts.   One reason I doubt that the   
   >sensations of physical experience are available in full force to   
   >discarnate souls is that if they were, I don't think any soul   
   >would have the nerve to undertake repayment because the   
   >process in reality, as opposed to the abstract, can be so painful.   
   >   
   >Just as an aside -- I have a close relative whose life has been (after   
   >an initially lively and promising two first decades) quite unhappy;   
   >so much so that I inquired with a good source I know, and was   
   >told that she's paying karma this time around as part of her   
   >preparation for leaving the "young" cycles of soul experience behind   
   >at last and moving on into the "mature" cycles.  According to this   
   >source (which is, of course, as unverifiable as everything else in   
   >these areas), she has actually paid 4 of a set of 7 debts occasioned   
   >by an incident of familial desertion (a wife and six children, left   
   >behind, starved to death).  I've asked, is she for-gods'-sake-   
   >FINISHED finally, because it's been painful for me as well, watching   
   >this miserable progress as it has worsened over time. I get told that   
   >this is her choice to make.  All I can say is, if I were on the astral   
   >plane thinking about off-loading some karmic baggage next time   
   >and if I could focus solidly and realistically on the amount of   
   >prolonged, exhausting suffering involved in doing that, I'd never   
   >have the guts to get on with it.   
   >   
   >C   
      
   My feeling about that is from the vantage point of the spirit world,   
   an earth life presents itself as incredibly short, and I believe that   
   when we choose to take on these really awful incarnations it's because   
   from that perspective it will be over in the blink of an eye.   
      
   Unfortunately, once we do incarnate, we experience that time passes   
   much more slowly in the physical world, and we are mostly unable to   
   remember what it is like in the spirit world or why we are suffering   
   so terribly for so long.  That's the flaw in the whole scheme - the   
   suffering without explanation or understanding why.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)