From: pagemail@swcp.com
In article ,
Jyeshta wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 16:46:16 -0700, Crowfoot
> wrote:
>
> >In article ,
> > Jyeshta wrote:
> >
> >> I wrote:
> >>
> >> >> What you said in a prior post, about the urge to experience
> >> >> physicality - to be able to run in a strong body - many cannot! To
> >> >> taste favorite foods again - I believe all one need do is remember it
> >> >> and the taste is experienced. I don't believe at all that the
> >> >> prospect of physicality is attractive to the older discarnate soul or
> >> >> entity.
> >> >
> >> >Well, but suppose you were unable to have an athletic or even a
> >> >fit body in this life, but then you're done and you realize that for
> >> >your next time around you can choose a body that's super-fit and
> >> >maybe is even going to be able to travel to the stars -- the
> >> >*physical* stars, not the vibrational perception of them that I
> >> >suppose non-physical beings would have. That would be a pretty
> >> >strong temptation, wouldn't it? I think it's a grass-is-always-
> >> >greener kind of situation: when you're in the body, you long to be
> >> >pure spirit, but when you're only spirit -- maybe then you long for
> >> >the powers of the body? Why else would we keep coming back
> >> >(which I believe we do)? Because of some kind of determinism?
> >> >Well, maybe -- but I'd rather believe that I choose to return
> >> >because there's something magnetic about being *here*, too.
> >> >And in the absence of proof either way, I think I'll stay with that.
> >>
> >> I guess we'll need to agree to disagree on that point, then.
> >
> >Sure, no problem.
> >
> >> I don't believe at all that we are eager, after hundreds of
> >> incarnations, to jump into an incarnation of pure suffering, for
> >> example. Sure, if we arrange to have a mostly happy life, maybe the
> >> prospect of such an incarnation seems all right. But for the most
> >> part, I do not think that older souls welcome additional incarnations,
> >> at least not on this planet.
> >
> >I think I misunderstood you: I also think that older souls are
> >much less interested in coming back the older they get, but
> >return as many times as needed to to complete their -- studies?
> >experiences? -- here, including choosing specific lives (and
> >specific partners -- those they have previously injured or been
> >injured by) to collaborate with on repaying or collecting out-
> >standing karmic debts. One reason I doubt that the
> >sensations of physical experience are available in full force to
> >discarnate souls is that if they were, I don't think any soul
> >would have the nerve to undertake repayment because the
> >process in reality, as opposed to the abstract, can be so painful.
> >
> >Just as an aside -- I have a close relative whose life has been (after
> >an initially lively and promising two first decades) quite unhappy;
> >so much so that I inquired with a good source I know, and was
> >told that she's paying karma this time around as part of her
> >preparation for leaving the "young" cycles of soul experience behind
> >at last and moving on into the "mature" cycles. According to this
> >source (which is, of course, as unverifiable as everything else in
> >these areas), she has actually paid 4 of a set of 7 debts occasioned
> >by an incident of familial desertion (a wife and six children, left
> >behind, starved to death). I've asked, is she for-gods'-sake-
> >FINISHED finally, because it's been painful for me as well, watching
> >this miserable progress as it has worsened over time. I get told that
> >this is her choice to make. All I can say is, if I were on the astral
> >plane thinking about off-loading some karmic baggage next time
> >and if I could focus solidly and realistically on the amount of
> >prolonged, exhausting suffering involved in doing that, I'd never
> >have the guts to get on with it.
> >
> >C
>
> My feeling about that is from the vantage point of the spirit world,
> an earth life presents itself as incredibly short, and I believe that
> when we choose to take on these really awful incarnations it's because
> from that perspective it will be over in the blink of an eye.
That makes sense to me.
> Unfortunately, once we do incarnate, we experience that time passes
> much more slowly in the physical world, and we are mostly unable to
> remember what it is like in the spirit world or why we are suffering
> so terribly for so long. That's the flaw in the whole scheme - the
> suffering without explanation or understanding why.
But it's only a *flaw* from this same limited earth-view; and
a lifetime of ghastly suffering *here* may seem like a (very
intense) flash in the pan from there -- in the light of 75 other
lifetimes before and as many to go after, over a couple of
thousand years, maybe.
I don't think we normally do our actual *learning* while we're
still in the midst of physical life; it's in the weighing up of the
whole thing, the assessment of how it fits in with all the ones
that came before, that most of the learning happens, I think.
Here, we're too bound up by cultural values and perceptions;
on the astral plane, wouldn't you think that the "view" would
be so much broader, allowing all sorts of new understandings
to develop. Maybe that's one reason that some between-life
gaps are so long (my mother-in-law lived to be 100, and I
asked once, recently, how she's doing and was told that she's
still mulling it all over, as it was very long life; made sense
to me).
Well, it's not the way *I* would arrange the universe if I
were in charge, but then I'm a very impatient person and
I'd like us to get through all our lives pretty smartly and find
out what goes on after, I mean *really* find out, each for him
or herself.
C
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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