[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> > > > considered themselves bound by their words.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Was it the children's fault that they were supposedly indoctrinated   
   >> > > that way?   
   >> >   
   >> > Is it your fault that your were born into a sin nature because of Adam   
   Fall?   
   >> > And are you powerless to seek and receive deliverance from that condition?   
   >>   
   >> No, it's not my fault. So why should I suffer for what Adam and Eve   
   >> supposedly did?   
   >   
   >You are their offspring you inherited their existence. They subjected the   
   >world to the power of Lucifer, making him the god of this world into which   
   >you were born.   
      
   If I was born into such a world, it's not my fault if that birth leads   
   to trouble, is it?   
      
   >You have a choice, once you reach the age of accountability of with choosing   
   >the things of this world and all that goes with it, or accepting the promised   
   >Messiah and all that he provides for your escape from it, as well as the   
   >power to live accordingly and all power over the spiritual enemy. Choose   
   >blessings or choose curses, default is the world you were born into.   
      
   What would be the point of choosing curses over blessings?   
      
   >> > > > > > Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, butthat   
   rather   
   >> > > > > > a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the   
   >> > > > > > multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just   
   person: see ye to it.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > Baloney.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > The story is well known, as is the story of what his wife saw In a   
   dream   
   >> > > > and relayed to him at the trial.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > It is well-known, but it's probably apocryphal.   
   >> >   
   >> > Any excuse to justify the choices you make.   
   >>   
   >> How is "apocryphal" an excuse?   
   >   
   >You were avoiding accepting the uncontested truth.   
      
   Which was what?   
      
   >> > > > > > Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His bloodbe on   
   us, and   
   >> > > > > > on our children.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > Which is exactly what the early Christian church *wanted* them to   
   have   
   >> > > > > said, so they could more easily differentiate themselves from their   
   >> > > > > Jewish beginnings and neighbors.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > The early church were jewish believers in Christ, and their relatives   
   who   
   >> > > > did   
   >> > > > not believe in Jesus they for certain did not want them to be   
   alienated.   
   >> > > > You   
   >> > > > are just blowing smoke, speaking things without thinking and with a   
   knee   
   >> > > > jerk   
   >> > > > reaction. The church you were mosr familiar with was no more related   
   to   
   >> > > > Jesus   
   >> > > > than the JW. And to take those ideas and place that understanding on   
   other   
   >> > > > is a great error.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > No, they wanted to go beyond Judaism. That's why they argued that   
   >> > > Jewish ceremonial laws like kosher food didn't apply to Christians and   
   >> > > newly converted Gentiles.   
   >> >   
   >> > Yet they rigidly followed the Law Covenant in most areas. We have already   
   >> > discussed that in part, not long ago. What did they know about Grace? And   
   >> > why have many departed from them?   
   >>   
   >> But they began to throw off the Jewish yoke, as it were, as they began   
   >> to see themselves as Christians and not theological Jews. And grace   
   >> without works is dead, to paraphrase the book of James.   
   >   
   >There was no jewish yoke. They signed up, and at the time of Christ both the   
   >northern and the southern tribes both had divorced themselves from God,   
   >choosing the gods of this earth and abandoned Him. Only a small remnant   
   >remained faithful to God.   
      
   The book of Leviticus which was foisted on unsuspecting Israelites,   
   can't be better described by anything other than that it's a yoke.   
      
   >As to James, it does not say what you claimed. It said that Faith without   
   >works is dead.   
      
   I said I was paraphrasing it. Grace and faith share the characteristic   
   loophole that you should be able to get away with anything, as long as   
   you have faith, or trust in God's grace.   
      
   >> > > > > > > > The priests were the ones who stirred up the population   
   against Jesus.   
   >> > > > > > > > Not   
   >> > > > > > > > all, as there were some who were followers of Jesus secretly.   
   The High   
   >> > > > > > > > Priest   
   >> > > > > > > > of Israel at the time of the birth of Jesus believed that the   
   Messiah   
   >> > > > > > > > was   
   >> > > > > > > > coming, were looking for him, and even recognized Jesus as   
   the Messiah   
   >> > > > > > > > when   
   >> > > > > > > > he was presented to them soon after his birth, and they   
   rejoiced. John   
   >> > > > > > > > the   
   >> > > > > > > > Baptist Was a cousin of his, who grew up not knowing Jesus   
   personally.   
   >> > > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > > No, crucifixion is a quintessentially Roman mode of execution.   
   It   
   >> > > > > > > wasn't the Jews who stirred up the population against Jesus,   
   but the   
   >> > > > > > > Roman authorities. Jesus' claim to be the Messiah was   
   politically   
   >> > > > > > > dangerous enough for the Romans to look into the situation,   
   found that   
   >> > > > > > > he was indeed guilty of sedition, and executed him for that   
   reason.   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > Mat 27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and   
   elders of   
   >> > > > > > the   
   >> > > > > > people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > Mat 27:2 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and   
   delivered   
   >> > > > > > him   
   >> > > > > > to Pontius Pilate the governor.   
   >> > > > > >   
   >> > > > > > If you were to go to the source, like here and the scriptures   
   >> > > > > > surrounding   
   >> > > > > > it, you would see a far different picture.   
   >> > > > >   
   >> > > > > An interesting quote. However, it carries no weight for those who   
   >> > > > > don't accept the Bible as being inspired.   
   >> > > >   
   >> > > > Of course not. Especially when you are afraid to read and understand   
   what   
   >> > > > the   
   >> > > > Word of God really says so that you can discuss things intelligently   
   even   
   >> > > > if   
   >> > > > you chose not to follow it. Ghandi was such a person. Agrippa in the   
   days   
   >> > > > of   
   >> > > > Paul was like that as well.   
   >> > >   
   >> > > Not at all. I've read the Bible in its entirety, as I've probably   
   >> > > told you before, even taking notes as I went. But unlike you, I've   
   >> > > read what *scholars say* about the Bible as well.   
   >> >   
   >> > What scholars? And of which denominations? You may have read it once all   
   the   
   >> > way through, but for what reason, purpose, an what did you take out of it?   
   >>   
   >> Raymond E. Brown, for one. And Bible scholars of the   
   >> literary-critical persuasion don't need to approach the Bible from   
   >> the viewpoint of any denomination.   
   >   
   >Yet they do.   
   >He a RC Priest was a specialist on the hypothetical Johannine community,   
   >which he speculated contributed to the authorship of the Gospel of John....   
   >Blah blah blah.   
   >That is not a bible scholar. You are just throwing stuff up against a wall in   
   >the hopes that it sticks.   
      
   How would being a Catholic prevent someone from being a Bible scholar?   
   And what about these scholars:   
      
   https://www.bibleanalysis.org/who-are-some-well-known-biblical-s   
   holars-today-and-what-are-their-areas-of-focus/   
      
   >You must be bored to death, and desire to be recognized by someone. Hence all   
   >the nonsense. Well let me tell you about someone who really cares about you,   
   >even before you were Born, and that is Jesus Christ, who died for you so that   
   >you might have peace, not the peace of this world but a peace that goes   
   >beyond the mind of man to comprehend. Take advantage of that while you are   
   >still living.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)