[continued from previous message]   
      
   > > > > > > > > 1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred   
   brethren at   
   > > > > > > > > once;   
   > > > > > > > > of   
   > > > > > > > > whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are   
   fallen   
   > > > > > > > > asleep.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > 1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the   
   apostles.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > 1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one   
   born out of   
   > > > > > > > > due   
   > > > > > > > > time.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Jesus then taught Paul in the desert for during a time of   
   three years.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was   
   > > > > > > > > preached   
   > > > > > > > > of   
   > > > > > > > > me is not after man.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I   
   taughtit, but   
   > > > > > > > > by   
   > > > > > > > > the   
   > > > > > > > > revelation of Jesus Christ.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in   
   the   
   > > > > > > > > Jews'   
   > > > > > > > > religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of   
   God, and   
   > > > > > > > > wasted   
   > > > > > > > > it:   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > ***   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were   
   apostles   
   > > > > > > > > before   
   > > > > > > > > me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see   
   Peter,   
   > > > > > > > > and   
   > > > > > > > > abode with him fifteen days.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the   
   Lord's   
   > > > > > > > > brother.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > Gal 1:20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before   
   God, I   
   > > > > > > > > lie   
   > > > > > > > > not.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > This was an interesting read. At first I thought you were writing a   
   > > > > > > synopsis   
   > > > > > > of one of his writings, but such does not appear to be the case. I   
   have   
   > > > > > > not   
   > > > > > > studied his works, but I briefly reviewed some of the comments   
   made by   
   > > > > > > others   
   > > > > > > who have their own views of what he wrote. Sadly it is difficult to   
   > > > > > > comment   
   > > > > > > on them since I would have to study up on Paine in order to know   
   > > > > > > something   
   > > > > > > about him, and it would have to be mainly the things written by his   
   > > > > > > hand,   
   > > > > > > not   
   > > > > > > based on the comments of others, unless they were peer friends of   
   his,   
   > > > > > > personally.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > What little I read this morning, was a whole lot of things   
   supposedly of   
   > > > > > > what   
   > > > > > > he said and thought, but it was clear that people cherry picked   
   phrases   
   > > > > > > that   
   > > > > > > lent themselves to support their personal agendas. According to   
   what you   
   > > > > > > outlined it would seem that Paine had at best a shallow and limited   
   > > > > > > understanding of the Bible, and virtually no personal knowledge of   
   God.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > I will make a brief comment to each numeric point. LOL, hopefully   
   brief.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > An interesting contradiction occurs with Paul's testimony, which   
   was   
   > > > > > > > pointed out by Thomas Paine, one of America's founding fathers.   
   Here it   
   > > > > > > > is in outline form:   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > 1) Paul, while being a Jew, claims to have persecuted   
   Christians, a   
   > > > > > > > claim also made about him by the author of Acts.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > This point shows and gives an understanding of how little   
   attention he   
   > > > > > > paid   
   > > > > > > to the NT.   
   > > > > > > It is obvious that he was a chief persecutor and he explained why.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > 2) When someone persecutes another, especially, a strange, it is   
   > > > > > > > because you do not like what that person has done, is saying,   
   and/or   
   > > > > > > > certain viewpoints that they, as a group, hold to. (As an   
   example, it   
   > > > > > > > is possible for a Jew and a Muslim to hate each other even   
   though they   
   > > > > > > > have never met.)   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > That would describe his agenda for those he persecuted. He took the   
   > > > > > > attitude   
   > > > > > > of a Muslim towards the destruction of all those who opposed his   
   > > > > > > religious   
   > > > > > > mindset, under the authority of the High Priest of his day.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > 3) As such, Paul, prior to his conversion to Christianity, must   
   have   
   > > > > > > > head the accounts of Jesus of Nazareth rising from the dead,   
   which must   
   > > > > > > > have included the so-called appearances of Jesus to the "five   
   hundred".   
   > > > > > > > In spite of hearing those accounts, Paul continued to persecute   
   > > > > > > > Christians; as such, Paul himself did not find the accounts of   
   Jesus   
   > > > > > > > being raised from the dead by God as being convincing.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > He may have heard, and was aware of the reports. Especially   
   because he   
   > > > > > > was   
   > > > > > > chief amongst the Pharisees. Like the typical atheist of today,   
   they   
   > > > > > > hear   
   > > > > > > much and deny all, and this was also the mindset of the Jews who   
   > > > > > > persecuted   
   > > > > > > their brother Jew who believed in Christ. To them it was heresy.   
   Yet the   
   > > > > > > OT   
   > > > > > > spoke of the Messiah that was to come, when, and where, and what he   
   > > > > > > would   
   > > > > > > do.   
   > > > > > > They had an idea that he was to come and set them up as a ruling   
   Nation   
   > > > > > > over   
   > > > > > > all other nations. And that will happen in the future, but many   
   looked   
   > > > > > > for   
   > > > > > > it   
   > > > > > > happening then, even demanding that he be that or else be denied.   
   The NT   
   > > > > > > spells it out but few pay attention to it so that they might   
   understand   
   > > > > > > the   
   > > > > > > MO of that day amongst the religious Jew.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > 4) It was only after Paul's private experience that he converted.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > It was only then that he was hit full face with the undeniable   
   truth   
   > > > > > > that   
   > > > > > > he   
   > > > > > > could not ignore. No longer could he deny and put things off and   
   > > > > > > discount   
   > > > > > > the   
   > > > > > > truth without cause. The believer who came to him and healed him   
   of his   
   > > > > > > blindness and spoke to him, as commanded by God, was fearful of   
   doing   
   > > > > > > so,   
   > > > > > > based on Sauls reputation for killing and torturing believers.   
   Said so   
   > > > > > > to   
   > > > > > > God, yet he went to him and ministered to him what God said he   
   should   
   > > > > > > do.   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Conclusion: The only evidence that Paul offers for the Risen   
   Christ is   
   > > > > > > > his private experience, as he himself discounted all the   
   experiences of   
   > > > > > > > all the other Christians who claimed to have experienced the   
   Risen   
   > > > > > > > Christ.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > Personal experiential knowledge, yes. But it also revealed to him   
   that   
   > > > > > > he   
   > > > > > > was persecuting others by believing lies. And that what the other   
   > > > > > > apostles   
   > > > > > > taught was indeed true.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > I do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead, and any   
   > > > > > "appearances" to the contrary after his Passion were purely   
   > > > > > physiological in nature.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > Dawn   
      
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   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)