XPost: alt.postmodern
From: Abx45Dfh@jjh76g7856gh.com
"Ted Lechman" wrote in message
news:b89924f9.0402181419.76460e05@posting.google.com...
> "James Whitehead" wrote in message
news:...
>
> > Nihilism IS a very religioud term -
>
> Only by extending the term religious untill it looses all meaning -
What i was implying was nihilism's dependence on the idea of 'something'
meaningful in life - its the opposite of the idea of meaning of life - which
is i thought often religious. The idea of believing in something or
'believing in nothing. One is committed to nihilism in the same way as one
is committed to a religion.
> i.e. when there is nothing that isn't religious. This process has been
> going on for a while now (e.g. "Holy Shit!"). ( I can't wait till "The
> Passion of the Christ" by Mel Gibson get deconstructed here).
>
> >> > But I digress... without further ado:
> > >
> > > Science vs Religion: It's a draw
> > >
> > > I think scientific research always begins with a thesis, a couple of
> > > tets and ends with a conclusion right?
> >
> > Or........ a hypothesis which is supported - but never proved by
> > experiment - and which can be disproved by experiment.
> >
> > >
> > > Believers cannot possibly do proper research according to that
process.
> >
> > Scientists BELIEVE in axioms of logic and mathematics as well as other
> > things - which then allows them to proceed.
> > Some other belivers - believe in say an all powerful God then procede to
> > think acordingly, neither will normally conclude that - in the case of
> > science - Logic is wrong - doesnt exist - or in the other that God
doesnt
> > exist. They look for error elsewhere.
> >
> > > Because their belief is in essence a conclusion already.
> > > I consider that to be merely a delta though. A thesis can include
> > > conclusions of previously done (and proven) work.
>
> Actually, Jim, It is not quite correct to say that scientists BELIVE
> their axioms and PROCEED from their. He's closer to the truth.
> Scientists ASSUME their azioms and BUILD from their - they "BELIVE"
> their results when the results WORK. It similar to a bunch of kids
> raiding their fathers toolshed for lumber, tools, nails, etc in order
> to BUILD a treehouse. They ASSUME their tools, and use them to BUILD
> their treehouse - which the "believe" if it is sturdy and "cool"
> enough to play in.
They do more than assume - they assume that their assumption is true. They
assume that certain logical operations are a guarantee of truth. But have it
the otherway - can you do science on the basis of an assumption which one
believes or knows is not true. I like your analogy of the kids - its very
17th century - the father is of course God - who guarantees the tools are
true and good.... so the treehouse wont fall down.
>
> Giambattista Vico was very observant with his Fundamental principle:
> " The Truth is the Made" (G.B. Vico - the Making of an Anti-Modern,
> M. Lilla).
>
> Also - "To Know the world, one must contruct it." - Cesare Pavese.
>
> With Religion, on the other hand the Assumptions (Axioms) and the
> resulting contruction (ediface) is one and the same. One is not
> allowed to build from religious assumptions, judging the results by
> their usefullness or sturdiness - on the contrary - to take religious
> assumptions in one own hands is considered heresy and severly rebuked
> - preiously physically and violently, now more socially using
> ostracism.
But religions do change - theological thought has altered and created sects
within christianity- are you not aware of the reformation? Heretics exist
even in science - like Robert Jahn.
>
> Building is forbidden in religion. That's how I interpret his
> statemanet that in religion you start with the conclusion. That's how
> theology is traditionally done.
>
Doesn't fit the actuality - like the ideas of the authors of The Myth of God
Incarnate and others who continually reinterpret and add to Christian
theology -
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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