8a32aec9   
   From: ghostGARBAGE@bitstreamnetMOREGARBAGE.com   
      
   In article ,   
    Kevin Calder  wrote:   
      
   > In message   
   > ,   
   > ghost  writes   
   >   
   > >the short version:   
   >   
   > >If a simulation is in everyway indistinguishable from the real thing,   
   > >what's the difference in the end results?   
   >   
   > Fair enough, but, do you really think that a brain and a computational   
   > simulation of a brain are indistinguishable?   
   >   
   > If I remove the top of your head with a buzz saw, what do you expect to   
   > pop out? :)####   
   >   
   > I'd expect some grey matter that is easily distinguishable from some   
   > abstract, invented, computational system that doesn't actually exist in   
   > nature of its own accord.   
   >   
   > But I wouldn't bet any money on it.   
      
   Basically the crux of your, and Searle's, arguement is that a   
   simulation, no matter how accurate even to the point of being completely   
   indistinguishable, can never be treated as the same as the original   
   simply because it is not organic in nature?   
      
   Seems like a form of prejudice to me honestly.   
      
   If I were to manage to put forth an object that would in every way act   
   like a person, pass every possible test you could throw at it to   
   determine "conciousness", "cognitive awareness" and any other neat   
   little term you want - i.e. give you for all intents and purposes   
   another person they instantly become invalidated if they are revealed to   
   be a non-organic intelligence (a computer in short)?   
      
   Note - I did not say were had reached that point, or are even close to   
   reaching that point.   
      
   This is all hypothetical. But if we did produce an intelligence that in   
   all ways acted exactly like a humanbeing would in every single way it   
   couldn't possibly have "conciousness" - and have we even defined   
   "conciousness" within this context?   
      
   Searle sounds like a machine-bigot. Sorry, but he does. Utterly denying   
   the possiblity of something that we haven't even really begun to explore   
   shuts doors that may need to be opened to understand the concept fully.   
      
      
   ghost   
   ~/~u forget the power of the monkey nugget to regulate brute reality. -alias~/~   
       www.accanthology.com ~/~ www.bitstreamnet.com ~/~ www.aliceandarthur.net   
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)