a790c894   
   From: this@are.email   
      
   In article , ghostGARBAGE@bitstreamnetMOREGARBAGE.com   
   says...   
   > In article ,   
   >  johnnyx  wrote:   
   >   
   > > In article  > central.dca.giganews.com>, ghostGARBAGE@bitstreamnetMOREGARBAGE.com   
   > > says...   
   > >   
   > > >   
   > > > the short version:   
   > > >   
   > > > If a simulation is in everyway indistinguishable from the real thing,   
   > > > what's the difference in the end results?   
   > >   
   > > the difference is an internal phenomena which is entierly unprovable..   
   > > but u know from personal expierence just how important it is.   
   > >   
   > > ..   
   > > jx   
   > >   
   >   
   > and if it's unprovable how do we know the quality does or does not exist   
   > within any given entity?   
      
   we do not.  and never will.  being a strictly internal experience it is   
   not something i believe we will ever nail down.. u can't prove ur own   
   "consciousness" nor can u prove mine..   
      
   however u can directly experience ur own, and given our similar   
   construction and actions u can infer my experience is similar.  that's   
   as good as it gets.   
      
   so.. u can either take that reasonable assumption.. or u can be a   
   skeptic.  .. FYI all skeptics are supposed to disbelieve in gravity and   
   with any luck are busy falling to their deaths.   
      
   >   
   > I will never deny it's importance to my personal experience in life. I   
   > will never deny it's importance in any aspect.   
      
   of course not.. that's why i pointed it out ; )   
      
   while the subjective experience of "consciousness" is unnecessary for   
   real world applications of AI simulacra its still the single most   
   important thing in the universe.   
      
   a child of 6 knows this without being able to explain it.. and so do the   
   rest of us.  no matter how impressive the simulacra is.. without a   
   conscious entity capable of being impressed its just another lump of   
   metal going through pointless motions.   
      
   and for the record.. without that same conscious entity.. things like   
   "motion" "pointless" and "metal" don't have any real meaning either.   
      
   tricky huh?   
      
   I'm just wondering if   
   > it's unmeasurable and undefinable how we know something else can't have   
   > it.   
   >   
      
   we don't.  i think its sheer arrogance to assume its not possible.. not   
   refuting that.. but there's a fundamental flaw in how people have always   
   approached the concept of AI.  thing is.. when it happens.. we won't   
   know.. it will likely be so far removed from our realm of experience it   
   will not notice our existence.. nor will we notice its.   
      
   but hey.. i could be crazy.   
      
   >   
   > ghost   
   > ~/~u forget the power of the monkey nugget to regulate brute reality.   
   -alias~/~   
      
   lmao   
      
   FYI - u gotta watch that "monkey" deal.  i called some guy a "fucking   
   monkey" at a party not too long ago.. this big black dude next to me   
   gave me hard looks for like 10 minutes while i tried to drunkenly   
   explain "we're *all* monkeys" and look less white.   
      
   hard to do when ur gods palest creature and zee amazon fraulein is   
   standing next to u giggling.   
      
   ..   
   jx   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)