From: exiledinpennsylvania@godeater.borg   
      
   In article <95670408.0407240202.792bd0b4@posting.google.com>,   
   Lev Lafayette wrote:   
      
   [some snippage]   
      
   >   
   >> Some questions to ask:   
   >>   
   >> What is a conscious state? Define it.   
   >   
   > Capacity to have state confirmed through others by linguistic   
   > mediation.   
   >   
      
   thats an excellent sounding definition.  until u turn ur brain on and   
   think about it.   
      
   ur saying a perfect simulacra is conscious.  IE if it can completely   
   mimic the external characteristics of "consciousness" then it must be in   
   actuality conscious.   
      
   nonsense.   
      
   it might just be a good mimic.  completely unaware of its own   
   existense.. an automaton.   
      
   verbal confirmation is worse than useless in the attempt to prove a   
   purely internal event.   
      
      
   >> How do you know it's conscious?   
   >   
   > Capacity to form new symbolic values.   
   >   
      
   strip that sentance of the last 2 words and i'll agree.   
      
      
   >> How do you measure it and prove what you are measuring is what you   
   >> think it is?   
   >   
   > Language.   
   >   
      
   someones been reading too much chomsky.  IMO u don't measure it.  it   
   can't be measured.. this is life.  lifes a bitch.   
      
   >> What makes a "Searl brain" a conscious brain?   
   >   
   > Linguistically mediated expression self and recognition of others.   
   >   
   >> How is that different from a large pile of neural scraps made of   
   >> n-dimensional q-dots?   
   >   
   > I think that's been answered.   
   >   
      
   but .. can we awnser it better?   
      
      
   ..   
   alias   
      
    everyday is   
      summer in hell.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)