From: omixochitl2002@yahoo.com   
      
   m.butcher@liv.ac.uk (FixinDixon) wrote in   
   news:1986a2df.0502051554.42240bec@posting.google.com:   
      
   >> IMO the whole "selling out" thing depends solely on one criteria..   
   >> did u do something u knew to be wrong for money?   
   >>   
   >> if u can awnser no, then ur fine.  if u awnser yes u may have   
   >> destroyed ur soul in the process.. the voice that tells u this thing   
   >> is wrong no longer works properly.. and the end result is ur still   
   >> fine.  but i'll try to stick with the no column.   
   >>   
   >> the concept of "our" ethical views is nonsense.  u will never find a   
   >> unifying set of moral principles everyone in this place can agree to,   
   >> past a certain basic level.. but even there.. chances are there will   
   >> always be someone who disagrees.   
   >   
   > So you'd agree that, in general, we share the concept of selling out   
   > as something to be avoided, which you claim is doing something wrong   
   > for money.  I suppose the exact definition of "selling out" is not   
   > something we'll all agree on, but surely we do share the ethical view   
   > that selling out is something immoral and unethical to us?  In fact,   
      
   Hey, I don't share that.  Mainly because it's impossible for me to exist   
   without getting accused of "selling out" by someone.  So instead I do my   
   best to avoid the stuff that actually is immoral and unethical.  ;)   
      
   > in the CP Commandments would probably have "Thou Shalt Not Sell Out"   
   > pretty high up the list.   
   > Which is an entirely different post...   
   >   
   >> > >From my point of view, selling out would be buying all your   
   >> > >clothes   
   >> > from corporate stores (GAP, Topshop etc), only drinking coffee from   
   >> > Starbucks, not watching anything that isn't promoted by "the   
   >> > man"... in other words, not thinking for yourself.  I suspect many   
   >> > of us share similar views, or at least promote free thought, not   
   >> > following everything the establishment says and generally doing   
   >> > what we want to rather than feeling constrained by   
   >> > public/government opinion.   
   >>   
   >> people need coffee.   
   >   
   > Why?  It's fake energy and mental stimulant that can be happily found   
   > in a decent diet of fresh vegetables, meat and fish.  If people ate   
   > better, we wouldn't need coffee.  I get by quite happily on water -   
   > and my teeth aren't stained a wonderful yellow and I don't spend £10   
   > on whitening toothpaste evey 2 weeks.   
   >   
   >> people need clothes.   
   >   
   > I direct you to the NWWF and the Lingerie Superbowl - clothing is not   
   > neccesarily necessary...  However, rather than run the risk of being   
      
   True, not everyone lives in a climate as hostile to naked human bodies as   
   I live in.   
      
   > bombarded by naked pictures of everyone who posts here, I'll simply   
   > concur and say "clothing is necessary"   
   >   
   >> where they get them doesn't   
   >> matter nearly so much as keeping them from going on kill crazy   
   >> rampages in the early hours of the morning because they were thrust   
   >> naked and caffiene-free into the dawn.   
   >   
   > Although I can see that being a rather fun idea for a new reality TV   
   > show - "REALITY": ten unsuspecting members of the public are taken off   
   > all their medication, fed fresh food, not given any coffee/tea/coke   
   > and we're gonna film them!  I reckon most people would last 3 days.   
      
   Why lump medication together with lousy food and caffeine?  In many cases   
   birth control pills, insulin shots, etc. are useful.  ;)   
      
   >> do u really need to see my naked ass loping wolf-like down the street   
   >> on a search and destroy mission for a latte?   
   >   
   > A latte?  Will that be a Grande, Super or Extra-hugmungous with   
   > marshmallows?  Drink water...  It costs the same, it's better for you,   
      
   Now I'm reminded of when my dad claimed that eating raw carrots served   
   *exactly* the same purposes as eating ice cream did.  As if I should   
   never take into account what a food or drink actually tastes like...   
      
   > its better for the environment and you're not paying for a near-global   
   > corporation to rip a third-world country's citizens off and ship how   
   > many thousands of tonnes of beans around the world to be served to a   
   > bunch of yuppies who carry the coffee cup like a status symbol.   
      
   How about Fair Trade coffee brewed at home?   
      
   >> i'll kill u yo, and ur family too.  keep ur politics away from my   
   >> starbucks!   
   >   
   > Walk into Starbucks.  Enjoy the fake smiles of the corporate wage   
   > slaves who make your coffee because that's their life for the moment.   
   > Enjoy the smell of freshly made coffee with enough adatives to give   
   > mice cancer.  Sit and relax in the air-conditioned room with everyone   
   > else, or even walk with your cardboard cup and plastic (non-recycled)   
   > top, and admire the fact that those beans were shipped thousands of   
   > miles at what cost to the environment just so you could pay £2.75 for   
   > a latte...   
      
   Hmm...a few paragraphs ago you were all for fresh food.  Right now nearly   
   all the food available to me is *either* locally grown *or* fresh.  It's   
   a snowy winter here, harvest season was months ago.  Well, "harvest   
   season" doesn't apply to cattle slaughter, but a meat-only diet isn't   
   that healthy either.   
      
   > In fact, walk into any store which has a store manager, rather than   
   > owner.  Feel the warm glow of the lights, the feel of familiarity, the   
   > soft pastel colours...  Then walk into a place where the owner is   
   > going to empty the register that day and will pay his bills from it.   
   >   
   > Now tell me where your money is doing the most "good"?  That is what   
   > selling out is (IMO).  Selling out is giving money to a corporate wage   
   > slave (who has the customer service of a dead wombat, the attention   
   > span of Dubyah and the future of Iran) so they can go out next Friday   
   > and Saturady night, get hammered and then come back to repeat.  I'd   
   > rather give my cash to someone who is working for himself and his/her   
   > family's shop.   
      
   Eh, it all varies.  Some corporate part-timers get hammered, some save   
   the cash for textbooks, some small business owners are nice, some have   
   their businesses stay small for a reason, etc.   
      
   > Right... what was the question?   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)